Am I the only one who doesn't get the appeal in joining a religion that says if you're normal and you fall in love and want a family, you don't belong? And here's what I don't get, okay if a church says something is wrong then they must be saying it's a sin, right? Okay so it's a sin to have sex or marry and then try to become a nun or priest in the church BUT do they think all those kids that attend the church came from immaculate conception? If it's not a sin for all the churchgoers to get married and have kids, why is it for the staff? And if it ISN'T a sin, which it ISN'T, then why does the church still have this as a qualification rule?

They want to serve God and the church, and are willing to sacrifice the distractions of relationships (family, sex) to do it, whether or not they agree with the oath. It's a helluva commitment, and it takes a certain fortitude to do it (and unlike a lot of people, I think most priests and nuns manage to do it).

But I've always wondered how people can be teachers, schoolbus drivers (in today's world), and social workers for troubled teens. It takes a certain type of person to carry out these careers. Me, I'd rather jump into a volcano than attempt any of these.

Supernova... those who become priests/nuns believe they have been called by God to do so. To give of themselves entirely, and to give support to the community to assist in their spirituality. This is a sacrament, like baptism, accepting a eucharist for communion, confession, last rites, confirmation, or getting married in the church--- some people do not know that marriage is a sacrament. During sacraments, one receives "grace" which helps lead to salvation.

Someone who was married and had children CAN become a nun (and I believe a priest) if their spouse has died. One of the nuns in my catholic school had been married and had grown children when she entered the order. There are people who marry and still serve the church by becoming deacons, but it is far different from being a true priest.

Again with this? They do it because they have a vocation to it. The vocation to the family life is just as legitimate. There's nothing wrong with starting a family. It's just that it's a SEPARATE vocation. Priests and nuns are called to a different vocation, one that is in complete service of God. They're essentially "married" to the Church, in a sense. And contrary to what most people say, most are content with the celibacy vows. They're hardly new and they're hardly secret. They know what they are getting themselves into, and the overwhelming majority are perfectly happy with their sexless lives. (Yes, there are a few rotten apples but frankly, I don't believe in stereotyping an entire group of people cause a razor thin minority is rotten, a minority smaller than in any other profession.)

My question to Supernova is why this constant need to rant against the practices of a religion that you are not being forced to join. Who cares why somebody would want to become a priest or a nun? They do and are happy with it. (and despite what many say, I am not convinced that a shortage of priestly vocations is what the Church has) It's a choice that's right for them. I am sure you make many choices that others don't like or understand too.

BTW, good answer to Bluesmama.

wants2laugh wrote:

Someone who was married and had children CAN become a nun (and I believe a priest) if their spouse has died. One of the nuns in my catholic school had been married and had grown children when she entered the order. There are people who marry and still serve the church by becoming deacons, but it is far different from being a true priest.

Very true. I read an article in a magazine several years ago about a man who'd been married 35 years, became a widower, then decided to become a priest in his advanced years. He said that he'd had "great sex" for 35 years and was able to leave that behind him.

But celibacy is not restricted to just Catholicism. It is also practiced in Buddhism.

Bluesmama wrote:

But celibacy is not restricted to just Catholicism. It is also practiced in Buddhism.

And, unlike Catholic priests who can at least get a few brews at the local pub, Buddhist monks cannot take "intoxicants that tend to cloud the mind." So, they are stuck with no sex and no buzz.

"'NUN', the word says it." - Blanche Devereaux

Forgiveness Man wrote:

Again with this? They do it because they have a vocation to it. The vocation to the family life is just as legitimate. There's nothing wrong with starting a family. It's just that it's a SEPARATE vocation. Priests and nuns are called to a different vocation, one that is in complete service of God. They're essentially "married" to the Church, in a sense. And contrary to what most people say, most are content with the celibacy vows. They're hardly new and they're hardly secret. They know what they are getting themselves into, and the overwhelming majority are perfectly happy with their sexless lives. (Yes, there are a few rotten apples but frankly, I don't believe in stereotyping an entire group of people cause a razor thin minority is rotten, a minority smaller than in any other profession.)

My question to Supernova is why this constant need to rant against the practices of a religion that you are not being forced to join. Who cares why somebody would want to become a priest or a nun? They do and are happy with it. (and despite what many say, I am not convinced that a shortage of priestly vocations is what the Church has) It's a choice that's right for them. I am sure you make many choices that others don't like or understand too.

BTW, good answer to Bluesmama.

why are you getting sooo defensive? She is young and obviously not as well informed on various religions as you are. Why not take it as a compliment that she is even asking you/us as a group? She knows that the group, and most likely you, will give her a competent well thought answer. Just provide her with the information that she seeks... THAT is the way to stamp out stereotypes, bigotry, racism, and hate. By sharing experiences and information, we get rid of ignorance.

wants2laugh wrote:

why are you getting sooo defensive? She is young and obviously not as well informed on various religions as you are. Why not take it as a compliment that she is even asking you/us as a group? She knows that the group, and most likely you, will give her a competent well thought answer. Just provide her with the information that she seeks... THAT is the way to stamp out stereotypes, bigotry, racism, and hate. By sharing experiences and information, we get rid of ignorance.

Because she does it a lot and repeatedly asks similar anti-Catholic "questions." After a while of providing her with the answers, I've realized that she isn't asking these as questions but rather as cloaked accusations. (Kind of like asking "Why would anybody want to hang out with a loser like you?" It's framed as a question but is really a statement.) It's not as if this is the first time. She's said a lot of things on here and my repeated fact providing seems to have fallen on death ears. It's not being defensive; it's frustration. I've tried many times to explain nicely to her before but she doesn't seem to be seeking understanding of Catholicism as much as agreement in downing it. Eventually, you need to start questioning the questioner.

supernova, be nice and stop downing catholicism.



sorry... had to try to interject some humor! LOL

Whatever floats your boat

Nhaiyel wrote:

"'NUN', the word says it." - Blanche Devereaux

Too true. Now here's a good question, where does the church stand on the subject of masturbation?

You really needed people to point out that it's a calling?

Alan Smithee wrote:

You really needed people to point out that it's a calling?

How is that calling different from a calling to be a reverend or a preacher or minister who doesn't have to take a vow of celibacy to join?


Although since we're on the subject. Some of you may recall my mentioning a book that I checked out based on similarities I found between its summary and the Casey Anthony case. Nursery Crimes, a 6 year old girl kills her little brother, tries to kill her older sister, causes an accident that kills the bread van driver, and her parents know that she deliberately killed, but they don't know what to do with her, so they send her to an all girls' Catholic school. At 6 she takes her first confession and admits to the murders, but since nobody believes her, she walks away with the knowledge that 2 murders is only worth 3 hail Marys, the same as her older sister's penance for lying.

Something I found interesting that they pointed out in the book, for all that priests go on about sin and how wrong it is and it's evil and all that, at the same time they NEED you to sin. You HAVE to commit a long list of sins so you can confess them and keep the priests happy. It's just like a doctor, they don't want to hear that you're fine, they don't want you to be fine; for them to feel satisfied with their job you have to have something wrong with you and likewise you have to keep committing sins to keep the priests happy because they really DON'T want to hear you're a good person, they want to hear all your dirty little secrets so they can feel they're doing their job.

supanova, are you an ex-Catholic?

Supernova,

Priests do not hope you will sin.... they KNOW you will. No one is perfect and everyone but god/jesus carries sin. Confession is an intimate and spiritual sacrament which brings one closer to God. The priest is just a vehicle to get there. You mention the book, and you mention books all the time... however the books you mention are works of fiction---WHY would you rely on fiction to make broad based assumptions about ANY topic---not just a religion?

wants2laugh wrote:

supernova, be nice and stop downing catholicism.



sorry... had to try to interject some humor! LOL

*groan* Punishment

alan, you can punish me anytime! lol

Ooh, I'll get my toys!

Supernova, perhaps it may help to know “why” Catholic priests are not allowed to marry.

There are scriptures in the Bible that highly suggest that servants of the Lord remain free from the distracting responsibilities of marriage and family. However, it is not a requirement. Catholicism made the choice to accept the suggestion of celibacy, whereas other churches have not. Episcopalian priests, I believe, can enter the priest as married men, but cannot marry once ordained (I may be wrong here; if someone on this board knows otherwise then please do advise).

Another thing, too, is that priests are sworn into life of poverty. Not all of them struggle, as they are only as poor as their congregation allows him to be. But they do not partake of jobs outside the church like the clergy of many other religions. Many priests would be hard-pressed financially to raise families, and since they are sworn into poverty, having a working wife and mother could contradict this vow.

Do I believe they should remain celibate? Not necessarily. But as one Jesuit priest once told me, "If you want something bad enough, you will sacrifice to attain it."

wants2laugh wrote:

Supernova,

Priests do not hope you will sin.... they KNOW you will. No one is perfect and everyone but god/jesus carries sin. Confession is an intimate and spiritual sacrament which brings one closer to God. The priest is just a vehicle to get there. You mention the book, and you mention books all the time... however the books you mention are works of fiction---WHY would you rely on fiction to make broad based assumptions about ANY topic---not just a religion?

I mentioned it to my mother and she knew some girls who were raised as Catholics who would almost swear to that, they said that if they DIDN'T have anything to confess or didn't have much, that they had to go in with something made up because you always had to have SOMETHING to tell the priests and it seemed the MORE you had to confess even if it wasn't real, then the more the priests were pleased with them.

That doesn't make even a lick of sense. The girls were probably forced to go to confession by their parents, just like mine did me, and I always pretty much repeated more mundane stuff ~ I think most kids do, considering we're just kids. But I never, ever, left the confessional feeling as though the priest was not satisfied with my menial sins. I did, however, resent my mother for forcing me to go as often as she did.

It's a helluva lot better than airing dirty laundry in front of the whole congregation like some religions do. And, personally, I'd rather a priest absolve me than a group of members.

Bluesmama wrote:

That doesn't make even a lick of sense. The girls were probably forced to go to confession by their parents, just like mine did me, and I always pretty much repeated more mundane stuff ~ I think most kids do, considering we're just kids. But I never, ever, left the confessional feeling as though the priest was not satisfied with my menial sins. I did, however, resent my mother for forcing me to go as often as she did.

It's a helluva lot better than airing dirty laundry in front of the whole congregation like some religions do. And, personally, I'd rather a priest absolve me than a group of members.

Personally I say to hell with both of them, God knows what the score is for everybody, He doesn't need any help from the church on that one.

Bluesmama wrote:

That doesn't make even a lick of sense. The girls were probably forced to go to confession by their parents, just like mine did me, and I always pretty much repeated more mundane stuff ~ I think most kids do, considering we're just kids. But I never, ever, left the confessional feeling as though the priest was not satisfied with my menial sins. I did, however, resent my mother for forcing me to go as often as she did.

It's a helluva lot better than airing dirty laundry in front of the whole congregation like some religions do. And, personally, I'd rather a priest absolve me than a group of members.

Actually, the fist time I went to Reconciliaton (as its now termed, well here anyway).. I lied to the priest ....I was 8 and had to confess "something"... I was a pretty good kid, and couldn't think of anything "bad" I had recently done... So I made up some lie (which I can no longer remember).
I think 8 years old is a little young to be "confessing".
However, I don't think that priests thrive on peoples confessions.

Artemis wrote:

Actually, the fist time I went to Reconciliaton (as its now termed, well here anyway).. I lied to the priest ....I was 8 and had to confess "something"... I was a pretty good kid, and couldn't think of anything "bad" I had recently done... So I made up some lie (which I can no longer remember).
I think 8 years old is a little young to be "confessing".
However, I don't think that priests thrive on peoples confessions.

Problem is since they can't talk about people's confessions, you don't know that they don't.

I think they ought to make it once a year, or once a decade, then the list of what you can even remember doing will really make it worth their time.