HomeWhat effects (social, cultural, economic) of the holocaust are still felt in the Jewish community? Does this vary between the U.S and other countries?
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Alan Smithee
Hyacinth Girl
Supernova
Forgiveness Man
Tony Marino
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Effects of the Holocaust
Tony Marino- …is a Global Moderator.
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Forgiveness Man- …is a Chamber Royal.
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The holocaust wasn't just a Jewish thing, though. Hitler was putting everybody in the camps at the end. I think, at least in our country, we've marginalized the holocaust to just some bad event from history. I see no evidence that it's really taught us anything.
Supernova- The Book Chamber
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Forgiveness Man wrote:The holocaust wasn't just a Jewish thing, though. Hitler was putting everybody in the camps at the end. I think, at least in our country, we've marginalized the holocaust to just some bad event from history. I see no evidence that it's really taught us anything.
I beg to differ, it's taught us a lot, it's given us an up close and personal view of just how bloodthirsty and barbaric and sadistic people can be under the excuse of working towards a greater good. People think that stuff like this could never happen in a civilized world, in a modern world, it can, it did, and it could again if people DON'T learn from it.
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I think the Holocaust taught us to keep checks and balances on maniac dictators and other rogue leaders, and be able to stand up and let it be known that they aren't going to be tolerated. I say "great job!" to having wiped out Saadam Hussein, Kaddafi, Bin Ladin, and the ousting of Mubarek and the death of Kim Jeong-whats-his-name over in Korea. I'm sure there was some political agenda involved in many of these situations, but ultimately, the world is better off without these wild jackasses in power, or alive, in some instances.
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Eh, it's taught. We say how bad it is. But I don't see any proof that we really understand it. Knowing about it, thinking it was a bad thing, and truly understanding why/how it happened are very different things.Supernova wrote:
I beg to differ, it's taught us a lot, it's given us an up close and personal view of just how bloodthirsty and barbaric and sadistic people can be under the excuse of working towards a greater good. People think that stuff like this could never happen in a civilized world, in a modern world, it can, it did, and it could again if people DON'T learn from it.
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There are some things the whys and hows are ONLY ever going to be known within the brain of the crazies who cause it. Psychotics' reasoning usually makes no sense to 'normal' people.
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^^^^True to a point. My point is that I think our culture is still perfectly open to a holocaust happening again.
Alan Smithee- ...is a 20G Chamber DIETY.
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I'm sure it taught the generation that lived through it much but with each succeeding generation those lessons become more and more forgotten. Holocausts/genocide still exist today. Just look at Africa.
Nystyle709- ...is a 20G Chamber DIETY.
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Alan Smithee wrote:I'm sure it taught the generation that lived through it much but with each succeeding generation those lessons become more and more forgotten. Holocausts/genocide still exist today. Just look at Africa.
Yep.
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I hate the fact that because of the holocaust you are now anti-semetic if you disagree with jews or israel. I'm sorry... but just because you were victims 70 yrs ago does not allow you to bully the whole middle east.
Forget the holocaust? no one has... forget the holocaust that the UN initiated in 1947 when they made Palestine into Israel... we ALL forget. I do not understand how one person can condemn the nazis and the holocaust, but then back israel while it is doing the same damn thing to the palestinians whose schools, farms, and homes have been bulldozed to build jewish settlements.
But thanks to the NAZIs, my just saying this will be an "anti-jewish" atrocity
Forget the holocaust? no one has... forget the holocaust that the UN initiated in 1947 when they made Palestine into Israel... we ALL forget. I do not understand how one person can condemn the nazis and the holocaust, but then back israel while it is doing the same damn thing to the palestinians whose schools, farms, and homes have been bulldozed to build jewish settlements.
But thanks to the NAZIs, my just saying this will be an "anti-jewish" atrocity
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Supernova wrote: ... it's taught us a lot, it's given us an up close and personal view of just how bloodthirsty and barbaric and sadistic people can be under the excuse of working towards a greater good. People think that stuff like this could never happen in a civilized world, in a modern world, it can, it did, and it could again if people DON'T learn from it.
I still cannot wrap my head around the unthinkable barbaric cruelty of murdering humans as if they were cattle running thru a slaughterhouse. How did the Germans (and don't say Nazi - the German ppl knew this was happening) rationalize such barbarity to themselves?
We must never forget, and yet such atrocities still occur in the world.
wants2laugh wrote:I hate the fact that because of the holocaust you are now anti-semetic if you disagree with jews or israel. I'm sorry... but just because you were victims 70 yrs ago does not allow you to bully the whole middle east.
Forget the holocaust? no one has... forget the holocaust that the UN initiated in 1947 when they made Palestine into Israel... we ALL forget. I do not understand how one person can condemn the nazis and the holocaust, but then back israel while it is doing the same damn thing to the palestinians whose schools, farms, and homes have been bulldozed to build jewish settlements.
But thanks to the NAZIs, my just saying this will be an "anti-jewish" atrocity
I too have been critical of Israeli aggression in the middle east. Once thot of illustrating it but didn't get around to it, with a foreground pic of bulldozers tearing up Palestinina houses, maybe Israeli pigs breaking knuckles and in the clouds Hitler & Stalin smiling "We taught them well."
But ppl tend to use "holocaust" lightly, as you do here. The Cubans misuse it locally all the time describing Castro. Do NOT confuse a real holocaust, the planned and calculated extermination of a particular ethnicity, race, or sexual orientation by the MILLIONS, with some other barbarian who kills hundreds or even thousands in some lesser "ethnic cleansing." What the Germans did gets the unconscionable prize of the 20th century and perhaps beyond. I don't think the barbarians of the past managed to meticulously murder the numbers they did and in so cruel a manner.
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Aprox 1.5 million palistinians have been killed, and 4.7 million are refugees from palestine. Uh, yeah... that is bad. call it whatever you want, holocaust, ethnic cleansing (in my opinion same thing)-- whatever you call it, it is lessened because the holocaust victims are the ones participating in it-- but they claim to be defending themselves. 
so much for learning from history.
I wrote in another thread that there is a great book called "The holocaust conspiracy: an international policy of genocide" -- it documents that the WHOLE world not just germans knew what was going on at the time.
so much for learning from history. I wrote in another thread that there is a great book called "The holocaust conspiracy: an international policy of genocide" -- it documents that the WHOLE world not just germans knew what was going on at the time.
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As a Jew and having grown up knowing people who survived the holocaust and hearing their stories about it, it has and will always effect me.
People in the US knew what was going on. My grandparents from Eastern Europe got out before Hitler, but they knew what was happening from correspondence with people back there. My grandmother along with many others wrote the white house letters. She participated in post card campaigns in which the story of what was going on in Europe was described.
They did not write only on behalf of the Jews who were put in the death camps but also for the other groups the Nazis deemed to be inferior.
Have we learned a lesson? With the Internet and the shrinking world we can see the murders and torture of innocent people that still goes on to this day all over the world. But how do you police an entire world? I don't think these things will ever stop. We will just know more about the fact they are happening.
My grandparents and parents had a strong prejudice against Germans. My mom was even upset with my sister when she bought a Volkswagon in the 60's. My generation I don't believe harbors these kinds of feelings. But I can understand them. When you can only go back as far as a couple of generations tracing you family because those were the lucky ones who didn't get wiped out, it's hard to think about it.
People in the US knew what was going on. My grandparents from Eastern Europe got out before Hitler, but they knew what was happening from correspondence with people back there. My grandmother along with many others wrote the white house letters. She participated in post card campaigns in which the story of what was going on in Europe was described.
They did not write only on behalf of the Jews who were put in the death camps but also for the other groups the Nazis deemed to be inferior.
Have we learned a lesson? With the Internet and the shrinking world we can see the murders and torture of innocent people that still goes on to this day all over the world. But how do you police an entire world? I don't think these things will ever stop. We will just know more about the fact they are happening.
My grandparents and parents had a strong prejudice against Germans. My mom was even upset with my sister when she bought a Volkswagon in the 60's. My generation I don't believe harbors these kinds of feelings. But I can understand them. When you can only go back as far as a couple of generations tracing you family because those were the lucky ones who didn't get wiped out, it's hard to think about it.
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Minerva wrote:As a Jew and having grown up knowing people who survived the holocaust and hearing their stories about it, it has and will always effect me.
People in the US knew what was going on. My grandparents from Eastern Europe got out before Hitler, but they knew what was happening from correspondence with people back there. My grandmother along with many others wrote the white house letters. She participated in post card campaigns in which the story of what was going on in Europe was described.
They did not write only on behalf of the Jews who were put in the death camps but also for the other groups the Nazis deemed to be inferior.
Have we learned a lesson? With the Internet and the shrinking world we can see the murders and torture of innocent people that still goes on to this day all over the world. But how do you police an entire world? I don't think these things will ever stop. We will just know more about the fact they are happening.
My grandparents and parents had a strong prejudice against Germans. My mom was even upset with my sister when she bought a Volkswagon in the 60's. My generation I don't believe harbors these kinds of feelings. But I can understand them. When you can only go back as far as a couple of generations tracing you family because those were the lucky ones who didn't get wiped out, it's hard to think about it.
My family was in germany at the time. My great uncle was ripped from the family at 10yrs old and forced into the hitler youth. He eventually became a Lt. in the SS and used his position to protect his sister who was working the underground trying to help jews escape, while also providing a safe haven for american soldiers who needed hiding. After the brother died, the Gestapo almost hauled her away, until someone recognized her as his sister. After that, she was never bothered again, continued throughout the war to move people in and out of her house.
I have often met jews who are prejudice against Germans. I was 13yrs old when a man in his 50s told me at a party, "I do not converse with germans... they are the spawn of the devil". Not such a great thing to tell a kid.
As far as the whole world knowing.... again i reccomend the book--- it discusses how Roosevelt called a world summit to discuss what should be done about germany killing the jews.... and when the dominican republic stepped up to take 100,000, the US rep scolded him saying that the island would never support that number. the US took no steps whatsoever to alter its ethnic immigration limits--- if only 2,000 british immigrants came into the US... and the law allowed 50,000--- then why not allow 48,000 jews to fill in the gap??? we could have done this and saved hundreds of thousands of lives. But we did not yet have an agenda that would benefit us.
As far as policing the whole world--- that is what the UN was supposed to do when it was officially formed after WWII (the league of nations failed miserably). If the UN does not help in these situations, maybe the US should get out of it, and take our 22% dues with us. We still owe them billions from years ago.. and there seems to be no end in site!
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wants2laugh wrote:I hate the fact that because of the holocaust you are now anti-semetic if you disagree with jews or israel. I'm sorry... but just because you were victims 70 yrs ago does not allow you to bully the whole middle east.Huh?
Forget the holocaust? no one has... forget the holocaust that the UN initiated in 1947 when they made Palestine into Israel... we ALL forget. I do not understand how one person can condemn the nazis and the holocaust, but then back israel while it is doing the same damn thing to the palestinians whose schools, farms, and homes have been bulldozed to build jewish settlements.
But thanks to the NAZIs, my just saying this will be an "anti-jewish" atrocity
The problem between the Jews and Palestinians didn't start with the establishment of the state of Isreal in 1948. I know it's Wikipedia but...http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Israeli%E2%80%93Palestinian_conflict
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As much as I fault modern Israeli hawks for their brutality toward Palestinians, and see it as counter-productive to ever having peace, I do understand their motives and the necesity to maintain a constant military presence in the area. Look at a map.
The whole crazy, known terrorist harboring Arab middle east surrounding one little Jewish state. What would you do? Just lay down and let them slaughter you as they have said they would? No, if you wanted to exist you would fight back and war is hell.
So again, and this is one of the few times I might agree with the mainstream sentiment, you won't find too much support for the Arabs, Palestinians or Jihadists in this struggle - because ... well look what those asswipes have done to us. Israel is the only sane nation in that part of the world.
The whole crazy, known terrorist harboring Arab middle east surrounding one little Jewish state. What would you do? Just lay down and let them slaughter you as they have said they would? No, if you wanted to exist you would fight back and war is hell.
So again, and this is one of the few times I might agree with the mainstream sentiment, you won't find too much support for the Arabs, Palestinians or Jihadists in this struggle - because ... well look what those asswipes have done to us. Israel is the only sane nation in that part of the world.
Alan Smithee- ...is a 20G Chamber DIETY.
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^...and whatever acts of violence against the Palestinians you want to lay at the door of the Israelis, please stop equating it with the systematic, bureaucratic, state-sponsored persecution and murder of 2/3 of European Jews as well as an equal number of "undesirables". Regardless if the rest of the world knew about it or not.
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