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    Let's talk about home schooling

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    Post by Supernova Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:56 am

    Yeah, one of those topics that never gets anywhere and only pushes all engaging opinionated people closer to the edge of World War III. Where do you stand on it?

    I'm for it, I was homeschooled and feel I benefited from it a great deal. There are those who say 'oh homeschooled kids never leave the house, never make any friends and have no idea how to function properly in the real world'. I disagree...I always had friends on the block who went to public school and we all got together...wait for it...AFTER school, just like 'normal' kids do. Besides, it's certainly not like you NEVER find any antisocial kids in public school.

    Then there's the academic side of it, which is a big part of it. I have neighbor kids that are in public school, the teachers know they're working below their grade level, but nothing's done about it. They hear the kids read words wrong every day and tell them they're doing it right. What's going to happen when these kids get out into the real world? Oh well, I guess it's not the teachers' problems so long as they don't have to have the same students again next year.

    I've been called on sometimes to help them with their homework and one thing I noticed was that they were given the same spelling words to type up every day for the whole school week. When I was in school, we went through a different list every day. And when I was in school, I usually averaged 3 grades ahead of other people my age. Nobody, not even my own friends could believe it when I told them I was in the 3rd grade at 7 years old, and I never got what the big deal was.

    There are people who are against homeschooling all the way, and I wonder how much research these people have actually done on it. One person actually said to me that kids had to go to public school instead of homeschool so they wouldn't end up like Jim Jones. And that would be a good argument...EXCEPT for the fact that Jim Jones went to and graduated from PUBLIC school. Some people say that homeschooled kids never leave the house...maybe in their little narrow world, but the fact remains the majority of homeschooled kids are involved in social activities just like the 'normal' kids, such as Boy Scouts, dance classes, sports, field trips, etc., and that would certainly defeat the argument that homeschooled kids never meet any other kids and never make friends.

    And as for the argument some use that homeschooled kids can never function in the real world? We have people in this country who went to public school and when they apply for a job as a dishwasher don't use any soap or anything to scrub the dishes with, and use cold water. And there are the little nightmares you read about in the advice columns in the newspaper, 13 years old and can't even get a glass of water for themselves, they need mommy to bring it to them.

    Now, naturally I don't think homeschooling is for everybody, but then neither is public school. The way I see it is, if public school was REALLY as great as everybody says it is, then homeschooling would've died out long ago, instead the numbers just increase every year. Now, since it can be so expensive (my books were $1,000 for every grade year) and time consuming, if the parents didn't think there was anything wrong with public school, I can't really see why they would spend all that time and money doing it at home.

    And then, there are the naysayers that say religious nuts keep kids at home to brainwash them. Well that may be true in some cases, but that can also happen when they go to public school, and not necessarily just religious, there are other kinds of nuts in the world. I seem to recall reading about a mother who had five kids, all who went to public school, but they weren't allowed to watch TV or eat any kind of sugary snacks, and they couldn't do this, and they couldn't do that, and any time they DID go to a friend's house and break one of her rules, they always confessed to it and got punished anyway, and then one day they just killed her. Homeschooling doesn't come into that psychotic equation anywhere.

    In short (too late, I know), I liked homeschooling, and if I had kids, I'd do it with them. In my opinion there are many advantages to it. There is no exact schedule, we always worked the 8-3 schedule like the public schools did, but it's not the only time you can do your work. AND, after clocking out at 3 P.M., we were done for the day, no 'homework', which is especially good because today there are more and more stories of kids who do it right after school until dinner and then after dinner until bed and then have to finish it the next day to start all over again. Each student has their own set of books, which is more than can be said for the public school in my area, and you buy the books, you don't rent them for the semester, so at the end of the grade you still have them. And there is none of this 'well you failed but we'll pass you onto the next grade anyway'...when I was in school anyway, you didn't even need an F, a D alone would warrant a makeup test the teacher would be only too happy to send. Then you consider the amount of individual time that can be paid per student. In a public classroom you have, what? 30 kids or more...and then you separate them by the prodigies, the normal students and the slow students, if there's even enough time to figure out who's who, the teachers still don't have enough time to work with all the students that need the individual help, but at home there's no overcrowding.

    That's my two bits on it anyway, how about everybody else?
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    Post by RedBedroom Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:31 am

    Great post. I love reading something so detailed from someone who is pro on the subject. I will just share with you what I think, per my own experience...

    In high school, we had a few kids who would enter in post jr. high home school. These kids were ALWAYS top notch students, and were not lagging. Literally, my class Valedictorian, was home schooled until her freshman year. She was smart as a whip, but she really lacked all things social all her four years of high school.

    Now, that said....I will say there is a balance. I attended high school in an area that had a very lame home school program. So while those who were home schooled by diligent parents, ended up being so smart, there was basically little that was affordable for them to do that would help them socially.

    In fact, in my area, I think that certain parents of home schoolers, purposely avoided social things for their kiddos. Case in point, my high school valedictorian...she always went to church, but did not attend youth group until she was attending high school.
    Motives are all different, I guess.
    I guess, I think it can be a great thing if the parents are able to properly use the tools given, and educate the kids.

    My son races motocross, so I know a lot of parents who have made the choice to home school so that their kids can travel with a trainer to ride dirt in winter and not have to do traditional school, here in the Midwest. I see it too often that a 20-something trainer will "educate" a kid while he is training him on the track....that pisses me off, as that is not what the whole concept is for...it is not for convenience.
    My son's trainer would NEVER talk me into having my son be schooled outside the traditional classroom, unless someone was able, and I don't see that happening.

    That said, I know there are situations that work, and when it does, it is awesome.
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    Post by Chris Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:44 am

    I think kids who are home schooled probably do excel more at learning, because it's one on one teaching. In a classroom setting, there can be too many distractions, and not all teachers are good at commanding attention from their pupils. With less emphasis on time restraints and crowd control, every step can be gone over as many times as it will take for them to process it.

    That being said, I also believe that general schooling does have a valuable premise. The social setting, and the routine of getting up in the morning and being away from the house for six hours a day, prepares kids for what they will inevitably face when they become working adults. It also gets them prepared for interacting with peers, and different types of people. To play devils advocate with what I said earlier about one-on-one teaching, in the working world, employers aren't always so hands on about training. People need to be able to comprehend the broad instruction that comes with a classroom setting.

    So it has its pro's and con's.
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    Post by Kral Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:20 am

    The thing I notice about home schooling is parents sort of flagrantly deciding to do it themselves. Do they have a degree in teaching? I can agree with Chris' points about how home school kids may excel at comprehension because of the direct instruction, but that the overall benefit of a kid going to school goes beyond just book learning. It's their first real taste of the real world away from their parents belly, which can't be taught at home. I think this episode of SP makes its point...

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    Post by Forgiveness Man Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:54 am

    Chris wrote:That being said, I also believe that general schooling does have a valuable premise. The social setting, and the routine of getting up in the morning and being away from the house for six hours a day, prepares kids for what they will inevitably face when they become working adults. It also gets them prepared for interacting with peers, and different types of people. To play devils advocate with what I said earlier about one-on-one teaching, in the working world, employers aren't always so hands on about training. People need to be able to comprehend the broad instruction that comes with a classroom setting.

    So it has its pro's and con's.


    Yes, it has a valuable premise, but that premise is largely failing. I don't buy the idea that school "prepares" kids for be working adults. Plenty of kids who went to public school are late for work, bad at working with coworkers, and really cannot handle somebody who doesn't think like that. The theory of the benefits of a classroom setting are nice, but they just aren't playing out like that.

    Besides, I don't want my kids getting 'classroom setting' benefits at the cost of their education. A kid who isn't well educated won't go far just cause they are used to "leaving the house" every day.

    School is for EDUCATION. I get tired real fast of the idea that school is for socialization. My kids are there to learn, not hang out or deal with bullies who distract their education.

    All in all, I am typically for homeschooling. Sure, it isn't for everybody but I strongly agree with the OP. The stereotypes about homeschoolers aren't true. I may not be the most social person myself, but I honestly feel I was more social BEFORE my years going to school. I don't think school builds social skills, and knowing both homeschoolers and public schoolers, I've found the former to be consistently more social than the latter. I also think homeschoolers have better social skills with adults.

    As for the idea that parent's don't have a degree in teaching, who the hell cares? lol Clearly these teachers with a degree aren't getting the job done. It's not heart surgery, it's teaching. It's what parents are supposed to do with their kids constantly anyway. Besides, if you want a degree, there are plenty of pre-made homeschool curriculums out there. I used one. I actually struggled in it quite a bit since it expected me to do things school just didn't teach me.

    And for the record, I tried socializing in school. Everytime I tried socializing at all, it was usually met with "SHHHHHH." The idea that school builds social skills is an illusion, IMO. You can't prepare kids for the working world with school. And as for employers not being about one-on-one training, then it would be beneficial for kids to have learned a lot going in, which school has a habit of not doing.

    I got plenty of tastes of the real world. I'm of the belief that the real world shouldn't compromise education. But I don't see school as the real world, it's just something we've gotten so used to we can't see that something else works.

    Yes, homeschooling isn't for everybody, and it requires a lot of work. But I think if you work at it, the end result is better than school. You can socialize plenty after classes(with other homeschool kids, or if they have finished their "homework," regular school kids Razz ). Education and socialization do not need to be integrated. School is a place to be educated and it seems since that has failed, people are contriving all of these other reasons to go there. Well, if I wanted those reasons, I'd have my kid join a club. Group schooling, IMO, is just a failed experiment. Sure, if a parent can't homeschool, it's understandable that they need regular school. But I can't recommend homeschooling enough. IMO, it teaches you everything that "regular school" teaches you, and more, without the distractions.

    I don't see any really good arguments against homeschooling at all. The only one would be if people don't work at it, in which case they'd probably be doing the same thing in school. Homeschooling is something the modern world may find foreign, but it's a growing movement as people slowly see that the public school system just doesn't work anymore. All of these supposed benefits it has, they just aren't there anymore.
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    Post by JM130ELM Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:43 am

    Home schooling certainly has its greater advantages, but I generally don't like the premise of it at all. IMO it's another form of parental coddling.

    Kids need to get used to a regular, outside routine. They need to be exposed to other kids who aren't from the same neighborhood or inner circle. They need to learn how to refine their social skills in a wide forum. They need to learn the responsibility of things like maintaining school clothes, bus fare/lunch money, and being on time. They need to experience the authority of adults (teachers/admin.) other than their parents. They need to be exposed to an array of extra-circular activities and group participation.

    Home schooled kids have the potential to be more book smart, but some things can't be taught in literature. While education is the primary focus of school, the secondary add-on's ARE important and complete the package. If I had a child, the only way I'd agree to home schooling him or her would be if all of the schools in the area were just overwhelmingly shitty.
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:52 am

    JM130ELM wrote:Home schooling certainly has its greater advantages, but I generally don't like the premise of it at all. IMO it's another form of parental coddling.

    Kids need to get used to a regular, outside routine. They need to be exposed to other kids who aren't from the same neighborhood or inner circle. They need to learn how to refine their social skills in a wide forum. They need to learn the responsibility of things like maintaining school clothes, bus fare/lunch money, and being on time. They need to experience the authority of adults (teachers/admin.) other than their parents. They need to be exposed to an array of extra-circular activities and group participation.

    Home schooled kids have the potential to be more book smart, but some things can't be taught in literature. While education is the primary focus of school, the secondary add-on's complete the package. If I had a child, the only way I'd agree to home schooling him or her would be if all of the schools in the area were just overwhelmingly shitty.

    Parental coddling? lol Homeschool parents tend to do anything but coddle. If anything, kids in school are more coddled by the teachers, least the bad ones are. Wink

    They have homeschool groups to meet new people. Most kids go to school with the same "inner-circle" anyway. Homeschool kids' tend to have wider social skills from what I've seen. Maintaining school clothes? They can easily maintain whatever they wear to homeschooling. I don't know any kids who did school naked or in their PJ's. Wink Authority of adults? They learn that plenty in homeschooling. Group participation? I know plenty of homeschoolers who have plenty of group participation experience.

    Add-ons don't make a sucky purchase worth my time. I don't care if they mail me poop with a five dollar gift card to Wawa, I ain't buying it. Razz There's nothing Public School can teach that homeschooling doesn't have to potential to teach(possibly even better). Sure, like anything, it will fall apart if you don't apply yourself, but the idea that all homeschool kids are anti-social hermits is ridiculous. People underestimate homeschooling. Unless the parents are too poor to do it, or just plain losers, I don't see any good argument against homeschooling. You can still get all of the add-ons that Public School offers, but without being at the expense a good education. Wink
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    Post by Supernova Wed Jul 28, 2010 10:11 am

    The funny thing of it is that homeschooling is a method well over 100 years old, but it's only been in the last 20 or 30 that people have been saying 'this is bad, it needs to be illegal, we need to take those kids away from their parents because they don't go to the same school as everybody else's kids'. In Germany it's actually illegal for parents to homeschool, so the ones that can afford it leave Germany, and one family migrated to the U.S. to continue it and were granted asylum.

    Funny thing of it is, for homeschooling being a method so old, everybody treats it like it's something new. It used to be not a lot of families did it, but every year more do it. I remember reading that after 9/11, the number just started to kind of skyrocket. Which I don't think is a bad thing, ALSO shortly after 9/11, a neighbor kid of mine thought it would be funny to pull the fire alarm and see how all the other kids acted when they thought they were being attacked. Everybody panicked and he just had the time of his life watching the kids being afraid for their lives.
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Wed Jul 28, 2010 11:53 am

    Supernova wrote:The funny thing of it is that homeschooling is a method well over 100 years old, but it's only been in the last 20 or 30 that people have been saying 'this is bad, it needs to be illegal, we need to take those kids away from their parents because they don't go to the same school as everybody else's kids'. In Germany it's actually illegal for parents to homeschool, so the ones that can afford it leave Germany, and one family migrated to the U.S. to continue it and were granted asylum.

    Funny thing of it is, for homeschooling being a method so old, everybody treats it like it's something new. It used to be not a lot of families did it, but every year more do it. I remember reading that after 9/11, the number just started to kind of skyrocket. Which I don't think is a bad thing, ALSO shortly after 9/11, a neighbor kid of mine thought it would be funny to pull the fire alarm and see how all the other kids acted when they thought they were being attacked. Everybody panicked and he just had the time of his life watching the kids being afraid for their lives.

    Ironic that so many want to squash homeschooling. I think it's because the government can no longer control what the kids learn and they don't like that.

    And you're right, homeschooling isn't something new. It's been done for a long time. The modern day school isn't THAT old of a concept. I think homeschooling is becoming more popular because people see that regular school as a whole just isn't cutting it. I don't think the problem was as bad in years past, but it's getting worse and worse. Homeschooling is just becoming a more appealing option as schools continue to degrade. Once you realize that you can still have most of the benefits of school while filtering out so many of the negatives, it's just the most logical choice.
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    Post by Supernova Wed Jul 28, 2010 12:48 pm

    Indeed, how about all those schools they're always showing on the news, where the ceilings are falling in and there's wall to wall black mold and fungus? The kids that go there every day are going to be breathing that crap in and then what's going to happen to them? And you can't send them all to other schools until the board of health gets done with them, so what's left for them? Well I guess they're all just going to have to continue getting an education with compromised health since there's no money and no alternative for what to do until the schools can be cleaned up.
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Wed Jul 28, 2010 1:35 pm

    ^^^^Compromised health, compromised education, all in the name of so-called benefits that can be better gotten elsewhere. What a deal! lol
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    Post by Supernova Wed Jul 28, 2010 2:28 pm

    Yeah, and not enough teachers, not enough time for the teachers to work with the students, not enough textbooks to go around, but dammit they're going to make their quota for bake sales and car washes to make sure they get new cheerleading uniforms or whatever, aren't they?
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:13 pm

    ^^^^Hey, it teaches them that sucky people exist in the world. That is so worth the compromised education. Wink
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    Post by Dan70 Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:39 pm

    I'm all for home schooling. It's been proven that kids learn quicker and more thoroughly in this setup.
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    Post by Supernova Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:21 pm

    Ain't it the truth? I could never figure out when I was a kid, why everybody was so surprised that I was in the 3rd grade when I was 7. To me, that was as normal as breathing.
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    Post by stavdash Wed Jul 28, 2010 8:46 pm

    Home schooling is fine, but I would not choose it over standard school as a first option.
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    Post by Marc™ Wed Jul 28, 2010 9:14 pm

    stavdash wrote:Home schooling is fine, but I would not choose it over standard school as a first option.

    Ditto. Home schooling is alright, but in general I like the idea of kids learning in a classroom setting.
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    Post by RobbieFTW Thu Jul 29, 2010 12:51 am

    stavdash wrote:Home schooling is fine, but I would not choose it over standard school as a first option.

    IA. I would only consider home schooling if something was wrong with the local school system.
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:26 am

    RobbieFTW wrote:IA. I would only consider home schooling if something was wrong with the local school system.
    Why do you think so many parents have started homeschooling? Because nationwide, people are starting to see that there IS something wrong with not only the local system, but all of these "classroom" settings! Wink If school worked, people wouldn't have to homeschool. It doesn't, hence they homeschool. Wink
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    Post by Supernova Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:20 pm

    Exactly, IF the public school system was as great as everybody wants us to believe it is, why would so many parents be spending so much more money and time doing it themselves?


    I think some people get it in their heads that homeschooling isn't real school, that they just keep the kids home all day and...I don't know, color or something. Not the case at all. You get your kid enrolled with a home schooling program, today it can be done on the computer, when I was in school, we did it through the mail. We bought the books at $1,000 a grade, the school sent the books and the tests, we did the tests, mailed them to the school, the teachers graded them and sent them back along with any additional comments on what our work was lacking. It was a lot of work and we did the 8-3 schedule just like the public schools.
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:34 pm

    Supernova wrote:I think some people get it in their heads that homeschooling isn't real school, that they just keep the kids home all day and...I don't know, color or something. Not the case at all. You get your kid enrolled with a home schooling program, today it can be done on the computer, when I was in school, we did it through the mail. We bought the books at $1,000 a grade, the school sent the books and the tests, we did the tests, mailed them to the school, the teachers graded them and sent them back along with any additional comments on what our work was lacking. It was a lot of work and we did the 8-3 schedule just like the public schools.
    We did it through the mail too, until we wised up and saved ourselves some paper and did it via the net.(I feel dumb for waiting so long for that. It's much faster) These teachers could be really big sticklers too.

    Another thing people forget is that modern day homeschoolers have co-ops they can attend.(I personally chose not to since it would've gotten in the way of my schedule) So homeschool kids can even have that "classroom" setting if the parents wanted it.

    The excuses against homeschooling are for the most part, completely illusionary. Sure, if parents can't afford it/have to work/etc., they have a legitimate excuse. But most of the excuses people come up with against it just do not hold up.
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    Post by Nystyle709 Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:55 pm

    Who is stopping someone from homeschooling their child? Unless my child has special needs, I'm not homeschooling my child. I will find him/her the best school available. Because there are bad public schools in certain areas, does that mean ALL of them are bad? Not hardly.
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    Post by Nystyle709 Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:57 pm

    Forgiveness_Man wrote:

    Yes, it has a valuable premise, but that premise is largely failing. I don't buy the idea that school "prepares" kids for be working adults. Plenty of kids who went to public school are late for work, bad at working with coworkers, and really cannot handle somebody who doesn't think like that. The theory of the benefits of a classroom setting are nice, but they just aren't playing out like that.

    Besides, I don't want my kids getting 'classroom setting' benefits at the cost of their education. A kid who isn't well educated won't go far just cause they are used to "leaving the house" every day.

    School is for EDUCATION. I get tired real fast of the idea that school is for socialization. My kids are there to learn, not hang out or deal with bullies who distract their education.

    All in all, I am typically for homeschooling. Sure, it isn't for everybody but I strongly agree with the OP. The stereotypes about homeschoolers aren't true. I may not be the most social person myself, but I honestly feel I was more social BEFORE my years going to school. I don't think school builds social skills, and knowing both homeschoolers and public schoolers, I've found the former to be consistently more social than the latter. I also think homeschoolers have better social skills with adults.

    As for the idea that parent's don't have a degree in teaching, who the hell cares? lol Clearly these teachers with a degree aren't getting the job done. It's not heart surgery, it's teaching. It's what parents are supposed to do with their kids constantly anyway. Besides, if you want a degree, there are plenty of pre-made homeschool curriculums out there. I used one. I actually struggled in it quite a bit since it expected me to do things school just didn't teach me.

    And for the record, I tried socializing in school. Everytime I tried socializing at all, it was usually met with "SHHHHHH." The idea that school builds social skills is an illusion, IMO. You can't prepare kids for the working world with school. And as for employers not being about one-on-one training, then it would be beneficial for kids to have learned a lot going in, which school has a habit of not doing.

    I got plenty of tastes of the real world. I'm of the belief that the real world shouldn't compromise education. But I don't see school as the real world, it's just something we've gotten so used to we can't see that something else works.

    Yes, homeschooling isn't for everybody, and it requires a lot of work. But I think if you work at it, the end result is better than school. You can socialize plenty after classes(with other homeschool kids, or if they have finished their "homework," regular school kids Razz ). Education and socialization do not need to be integrated. School is a place to be educated and it seems since that has failed, people are contriving all of these other reasons to go there. Well, if I wanted those reasons, I'd have my kid join a club. Group schooling, IMO, is just a failed experiment. Sure, if a parent can't homeschool, it's understandable that they need regular school. But I can't recommend homeschooling enough. IMO, it teaches you everything that "regular school" teaches you, and more, without the distractions.

    I don't see any really good arguments against homeschooling at all. The only one would be if people don't work at it, in which case they'd probably be doing the same thing in school. Homeschooling is something the modern world may find foreign, but it's a growing movement as people slowly see that the public school system just doesn't work anymore. All of these supposed benefits it has, they just aren't there anymore.
    Explains a lot.
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    Let's talk about home schooling Empty Re: Let's talk about home schooling

    Post by Forgiveness Man Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:14 pm

    Nystyle709 wrote:Explains a lot.
    It explains nothing actually. Enough with the personal shots, or is that the only way you know how to debate? Wink

    As for who is trying to stop people from homeschooling, the government. Razz Nobody is saying you HAVE to homeschool your kids either you know. Wink
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    Let's talk about home schooling Empty Re: Let's talk about home schooling

    Post by RobbieFTW Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:57 pm

    Forgiveness_Man wrote:Why do you think so many parents have started homeschooling? Because nationwide, people are starting to see that there IS something wrong with not only the local system, but all of these "classroom" settings! Wink If school worked, people wouldn't have to homeschool. It doesn't, hence they homeschool. Wink

    I don't think it's accurate to paint every school with the same brush. By something wrong, I meant "especially". I.E., the local school(s) has had documented trouble with sub par administration, environment, violence or poor test scores.

    I'm not gonna look at the whole of schools and think that they're all so fucked up and flawed in general that the first and only choice is to home school. My first choice would be to send them TO school.

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