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    Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

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    News Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Marc™ Thu Jul 29, 2010 2:24 am


    Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality, Or Be Dismissed

    By Joshua Rhett Miller
    Published July 27, 2010 | FoxNews.com

    Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality... Keeton640_397x224A graduate student in Georgia is suing her university after she was told she must undergo a remediation program due to her beliefs on homosexuality and transgendered persons.

    The student, Jennifer Keeton, 24, has been pursuing a master's degree in school counseling at Augusta State University since 2009, but school officials have informed her that she'll be dismissed from the program unless she alters her "central religious beliefs on human nature and conduct," according to a civil complaint filed last week.

    "[Augusta State University] faculty have promised to expel Miss Keeton from the graduate Counselor Education Program not because of poor academic showing or demonstrated deficiencies in clinical performance, but simply because she has communicated both inside and outside the classroom that she holds to Christian ethical convictions on matters of human sexuality and gender identity," the 43-page lawsuit reads.

    Keeton, according to the lawsuit, was informed by school officials in late May that she would be asked to take part in a remediation plan due to faculty concerns regarding her beliefs pertaining to gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgender issues.

    "The faculty identifies Miss Keeton's views as indicative of her improper professional disposition to persons of such populations," the lawsuit reads.

    In a statement to FoxNews.com, Augusta State University officials declined to comment specifically on the litigation, but said the university does not discriminate on the basis of students' moral, religious, political or personal views or beliefs.

    "The Counselor Education Program is grounded in the core principles of the American Counseling Association and the American School Counselor Association, which defines the roles and responsibilities of professional counselors in its code of ethics," the statement read. "The code is included in the curriculum of the counseling education program, which states that counselors in training have the same responsibility as professional counselors to understand and follow the ACA Code of Ethics."

    The Code of Ethics prohibits counselors from discriminating based on a number of factors, including gender identity and sexual orientation. "Counselors do not discriminate against clients, students, employees, supervisees, or research participants in a manner that has a negative impact on these persons," the code says.

    Keeton's lawsuit alleges that the university's remediation plan noted Keeton's "disagreement in several class discussions and in written assignments with the gay and lesbian 'lifestyle,'" as well as Keeton's belief that those "lifestyles" are cases of identity confusion.

    If Keeton fails to complete the plan, including additional reading and the writing of papers describing the impact on her beliefs, she will be expelled from the Counselor Education Program, the lawsuit claims.

    Keeton has stated that she believes sexual behavior is the "result of accountable personal choice rather than an inevitability deriving from deterministic forces," according to the suit.

    "She also has affirmed binary male-female gender, with one or the other being fixed in each person at their creation, and not a social construct or individual choice subject to alteration by the person so created," the lawsuit reads. "Further, she has expressed her view that homosexuality is a 'lifestyle,' not a 'state of being.'"

    David French, senior counsel at the Alliance Defense Fund, which filed the lawsuit against Augusta State University on Keeton's behalf, said no university has the right to force a citizen to change their beliefs on any topic.

    "The university has told Jennifer Keeton that if she doesn't change her beliefs, she can't stay in the program," he told FoxNews.com. "She won't even have a chance to counsel any students; she won't have a chance to get a counseling degree; she'll be expelled."

    Keeton, who is not available for interviews according to French, believes that people have "moral choices" regarding their sexuality, he said.

    "A student has a right to express their point of view in and out of class without fear or censorship or expulsion," French said.

    Source:
    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/07/27/georgia-university-tells-student-lose-religion-lawsuit-claims/#ixzz1j1kaz6j5
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Forgiveness Man Thu Jul 29, 2010 8:35 am

    So let's see, "change your beliefs or we're expelling you," coming from people who say that you are not supposed to discriminate. You gotta laugh at the hypocrisy!

    Now imagine if this were the reverse, a pro-gay student being expelled from a religious school, imagine the outrage and cries of discrimination. But will anybody care about this girl? I suspect not, they'll see she deserved it for being "homophobic."

    Double standards, hypocrisy, agenda shoving, all in a day's work for the so-called "tolerant." *sigh

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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Nystyle709 Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:18 pm

    IF this is true and those are the complete facts, then the school has a point. This girl is trying to get a master's in counseling. What kind of counselor is she going to make if she displays preconceived notions about any clients that she will have in the future? What if she gets a job being a counselor at a school and there is a student there who is openly gay? What is she going to tell him/her....."sweetheart, you're an abomination and you will burn in hell because of these horrible choices you've made"? One of the factors in being a counselor is to be objective. She's not displaying any reason that she would be in her future career and she expects them to pass her? Please.
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by CeCe Thu Jul 29, 2010 3:59 pm

    Marc wrote:

    "The Counselor Education Program is grounded in the core principles of the American Counseling Association and the American School Counselor Association, which defines the roles and responsibilities of professional counselors in its code of ethics," the statement read. "The code is included in the curriculum of the counseling education program, which states that counselors in training have the same responsibility as professional counselors to understand and follow the ACA Code of Ethics."

    The Code of Ethics prohibits counselors from discriminating based on a number of factors, including gender identity and sexual orientation. "Counselors do not discriminate against clients, students, employees, supervisees, or research participants in a manner that has a negative impact on these persons," the code says.


    Aside from what should be very basic common sense for someone who wants to be a counselor, it appears to be very clear. Maybe she could apply to a christian college to be a religious/christian counselor. But no way should she be counseling lgbt clients.
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Forgiveness Man Thu Jul 29, 2010 5:06 pm

    Nystyle709 wrote: What kind of counselor is she going to make if she displays preconceived notions about any clients that she will have in the future?
    The problem with this is that every human being has preconceived notions built into them, and I am sure if she was displaying a bias from the other side, there'd be no questions asked. Human beings by nature can never be 100% objective. I am sure this woman could easily be just as effective a counselor by her beliefs, maybe even more. IMO, this is just plain ole discrimination, and justifying it behind "she has to be objective" is no better an excuse than those who try to keep homosexuals out of jobs use.
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by RobbieFTW Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:10 pm

    Good. Someone like her doesn't need to be counseling and exerting her influence on confused and impressionable young minds.
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Forgiveness Man Thu Jul 29, 2010 6:35 pm

    ^^^^I am sure somebody could use the same logic to justify expelling her for having the opposite view.

    To me, that just says that discrimination is okay for most people as long as those being discriminated against are those they don't care for. Wink
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Impact Fri Jul 30, 2010 1:29 am

    I could see how it would become a professional liability. It would kind of be like a doctor refusing to believe that giving stitches can actually help a person. I don't believe that people should be forced to change their views, but I also don't think she would be able to become a successful school counselor if she holds those beliefs.
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Forgiveness Man Fri Jul 30, 2010 8:16 am

    ^^^^I feel to see the correlation, sorry, but the comparison is invalid. The girl has never given any indication that she would be a poor counselor to homosexuals. Would an atheist who doesn't like practicing Christians be given the same treatment? Never, and if they were, people would be up in arms.
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Nystyle709 Fri Jul 30, 2010 3:24 pm

    Forgiveness_Man wrote:The problem with this is that every human being has preconceived notions built into them,
    No, those things are TAUGHT or LEARNED. You think a newborn has 'preconceived notions built into them'? Not every human being has that or does that. At least not ones that are cultured and socialize with other people. That maybe for you, but everyone doesn't think like you do. There is a problem with my opinion? This is my problem with you. It's funny when you think someone attacks you for your opinion, you get on the defensive but you so coyly do the same.

    and I am sure if she was displaying a bias from the other side, there'd be no questions asked. Human beings by nature can never be 100% objective. I am sure this woman could easily be just as effective a counselor by her beliefs, maybe even more. IMO, this is just plain ole discrimination, and justifying it behind "she has to be objective" is no better an excuse than those who try to keep homosexuals out of jobs use.
    You have no problems with this case and you're in defense of her because you believe the same crap she does. How can you NOT see that her projecting or influencing her strong beliefs on others (which the school sees that's she's more likely to do in her future career) isn't a good idea? And it damn sure doesn't suit someone trying to be a counselor. If people can just remove their religious notions for a sec and think with a logical mind, this world would be a much better place.
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Forgiveness Man Fri Jul 30, 2010 4:29 pm

    Nystyle709 wrote:
    You have no problems with this case and you're in defense of her because you believe the same crap she does. How can you NOT see that her projecting or influencing her strong beliefs on others (which the school sees that's she's more likely to do in her future career) isn't a good idea? And it damn sure doesn't suit someone trying to be a counselor. If people can just remove their religious notions for a sec and think with a logical mind, this world would be a much better place.

    You're the one who seems to cry intolerance while being intolerant madam. Razz And okay fine, I revise my statement. Every human being is TAUGHT to have preconceived notions in them, including every other student in that program NOT being threatened with expulsion. In other words, you don't care about a counselor not being objective unless they have convictions you don't have. Razz

    Oh please, all counselors use their beliefs on others. I like how unreligious people want religious people to shove what they believe away but they can shove their modernist secular propaganda on everyone else and the world needs to stop and listen. Give me a break. The only reason YOU have a problem with this case is cause you DONT agree with her. If she were somebody who hated religious people, you'd be pissed if she was expelled. Sorry, but no logical person can argue that this girl would make a bad counselor without saying the same with all the students in this program. The fact is that the girl is not a bad counselor cause she has religious beliefs.
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Nystyle709 Sat Jul 31, 2010 5:52 pm

    Forgiveness_Man wrote:

    You're the one who seems to cry intolerance while being intolerant madam. Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality... Icon_razz And okay fine, I revise my statement. Every human being is TAUGHT to have preconceived notions in them, including every other student in that program NOT being threatened with expulsion.

    LOL, are you in that program? How do you know they are teaching their students to have preconcieved notions in them? Maybe your non-socializing ass has biases towards people different from you and think differently from you, but not EVERY human being is taught those things.

    In other words, you don't care about a counselor not being objective unless they have convictions you don't have. Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality... Icon_razz
    Oh, but yes I do. I'm not a racist, but do you think I'd want a racist counselor advising me? I'm not gay but do I want an anit-gay/homophobic counselor advising me? Hell no.

    Oh please, all counselors use their beliefs on others. I like how unreligious people want religious people to shove what they believe away but they can shove their modernist secular propaganda on everyone else and the world needs to stop and listen. Give me a break. The only reason YOU have a problem with this case is cause you DONT agree with her. If she were somebody who hated religious people, you'd be pissed if she was expelled. Sorry, but no logical person can argue that this girl would make a bad counselor without saying the same with all the students in this program. The fact is that the girl is not a bad counselor cause she has religious beliefs.
    LOL, I don't know why I even respond to you. First off....this girl wants to get a master's in SCHOOL counseling. School-age children have impressionable minds and are supposed to be encouraged to express their feelings. The lawsuit specifically states she has problems with gay and lesbian issues. You really think she'd be a good counselor for a school-aged male or female trying to come to grips with their sexuality if they are gay or lesbian? Which is what most of them who are try to do at that age? Whatever man.
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by ariesjow Sat Jul 31, 2010 7:48 pm

    It seems pretty clear to me that Augusta State feels this woman is a potential psychological danger to students, particularly LGBT youth, if allowed to counsel and rightfully so. I haven't read the complaint but it sounds like her attorneys made sure to include carefully crafted flourishings to make it appear as if the school is infringing upon her religious beliefs. That doesn't sounds like the case when you read between the lines here.

    It appears the school simply wants her to prove that she possesses the ability to separate her personal beliefs from her professional responsibilities. This is required in all sorts of professional settings and would be absolutely paramount for a school counselor. Augusta State probably wants to send her to remediation to make certain she has the requisite ability to set her personal beliefs aside to adhere to uniform professional practices for the sake of her future clients. I seriously doubt the school told her to "change her beliefs" but that's the only way for her to frame this argument to make it appear as if it has any validity. She should just do the remediation and then find a job in some Christian private school that espouses the sort of philosophy in which she believes.

    Forgiveness_Man wrote:If she were somebody who hated religious people, you'd be pissed if she was expelled. Sorry, but no logical person can argue that this girl would make a bad counselor without saying the same with all the students in this program. The fact is that the girl is not a bad counselor cause she has religious beliefs.

    Actually, it will be fairly easy to argue that she would be a bad counselor if she's already fervently projecting her personal religious beliefs in classroom discussions and on written assignment in this manner. She likely has many classmates who share similar beliefs on homosexuality but the school appears to be concerned that she can't shut her mouth enough on these issues to adhere to professional standards. This doesn't mean that she'll ultimately be a bad counselor because she has these beliefs nor does it mean that counselors typically don't interject their personal beliefs as a practice. It just means this lady clearly lacks self-control at this juncture to follow the rules.

    Also, I assure you that this school would likely treat a person who espoused hatred for religious people in exactly same way. A similar lawsuit on that basis would have the exact same gaping holes as this one of the facts. It's not her beliefs that they are rejecting but her apparent inability to balance her beliefs with her professional responsibilities.
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Rule Breaker Sun Aug 01, 2010 12:09 am

    If you're going to go into the field of psychology, you should be socio-politically neutral. Her beliefs would become a liability, and have the potential to be dangerous.
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Chris Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:03 am

    Rule Breaker wrote:If you're going to go into the field of psychology, you should be socio-politically neutral. Her beliefs would become a liability, and have the potential to be dangerous.

    Indeed.
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Forgiveness Man Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:16 am

    @NY: Not worth my time anymore.


    ariesjow wrote:Actually, it will be fairly easy to argue that she would be a bad counselor if she's already fervently projecting her personal religious beliefs in classroom discussions and on written assignment in this manner. She likely has many classmates who share similar beliefs on homosexuality but the school appears to be concerned that she can't shut her mouth enough on these issues to adhere to professional standards. This doesn't mean that she'll ultimately be a bad counselor because she has these beliefs nor does it mean that counselors typically don't interject their personal beliefs as a practice. It just means this lady clearly lacks self-control at this juncture to follow the rules.

    Also, I assure you that this school would likely treat a person who espoused hatred for religious people in exactly same way. A similar lawsuit on that basis would have the exact same gaping holes as this one of the facts. It's not her beliefs that they are rejecting but her apparent inability to balance her beliefs with her professional responsibilities.


    I have a feeling her "inability to shut her mouth" is greatly exaggerated. And if a liberal were unable to shut up about hating religious people, would they feel the same way? Not unless the religion was Islam.

    I really doubt that. Sorry, but this country doesn't care if you offend certain people. It only cares if you offend their designated favorite "minorities." Besides, they outright said she has to change her beliefs, so clearly it is her beliefs they are rejecting. That's discrimination.
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by ariesjow Sun Aug 01, 2010 1:36 pm

    Forgiveness_Man wrote:@NY: Not worth my time anymore.




    I have a feeling her "inability to shut her mouth" is greatly exaggerated. And if a liberal were unable to shut up about hating religious people, would they feel the same way? Not unless the religion was Islam.

    I really doubt that. Sorry, but this country doesn't care if you offend certain people. It only cares if you offend their designated favorite "minorities." Besides, they outright said she has to change her beliefs, so clearly it is her beliefs they are rejecting. That's discrimination.

    Don't let your own agreement with the Plaintiff's views warp the facts here. Re-read the article. The only version of the facts we're getting are the Plaintiff's version embellished by her attorneys. There's no indication that Augusta State told her to "change her beliefs." That's simply the argument that her attorneys at Alliance Defense Fund are trying to frame based on the University requiring her to takes remediation classes. I'm an attorney as well so I know all about trying to advance a constructive argument when the facts don't directly support you. That's what it appears to be here. Her written papers will probably make the case for Augusta State. She will lose at trial absent more definitive proof. The University could easily show the following:

    (1) that she has been unable to "understand and follow the ACA Code of Ethics;"
    (2) that they did not seek to change her religious beliefs;
    (3) and that other students who may share her personal beliefs on homosexuality are able to follow the Code.

    Case closed. She wouldn't need to rely on a Christian conservative defense fund if she had a stronger case and could actually prove the University infringed on the free exercise of her religion. A large law firm or the ACLU would have swiftly taken up this cause on her behalf. Many people will let their own personal belief cloud the facts here similar to what you're doing. So her counsel is smart by at least shopping this around to media outlets like Fox News with her pretty face plastered on it. It builds public outcry. That's probably the only way they can at least get a nuisance settlement out of this. Alliance Defense Fund would declare such a settlement a "victory" and use it to propel their own cause. This lady probably won't stand a chance in hell at trial in Federal Court.


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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Nystyle709 Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:21 pm

    Forgiveness_Man wrote:@NY: Not worth my time anymore.


    LOL, same here. Trying to debate with rockheads gives me a headache. I been done with you a long time ago. I was just entertaining myself and trying to hype up my post count. Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality... Icon_cool
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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by fetaby Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:44 pm

    Asking someone to not discriminate is discrimination how? They asked her to not discriminate against LGBT (that whole abomination, going to hell mentality). If her beliefs are so steadfast that she can't perform the duties of her career choice, I would say she unwisely chose her career.

    How could she possibly relate or understand her LGBT clients with her "beliefs." But then again this was never about understanding, this was about her having the ability to sermonize and preach her beliefs. That's not counseling, that's preaching.

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    News Re: Lawsuit Claims College Ordered Student to Alter Religious Views on Homosexuality...

    Post by Forgiveness Man Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:36 pm

    ariesjow wrote:

    Don't let your own agreement with the Plaintiff's views warp the facts here. Re-read the article. The only version of the facts we're getting are the Plaintiff's version embellished by her attorneys. There's no indication that Augusta State told her to "change her beliefs." That's simply the argument that her attorneys at Alliance Defense Fund are trying to frame based on the University requiring her to takes remediation classes. I'm an attorney as well so I know all about trying to advance a constructive argument when the facts don't directly support you. That's what it appears to be here. Her written papers will probably make the case for Augusta State. She will lose at trial absent more definitive proof. The University could easily show the following:

    (1) that she has been unable to "understand and follow the ACA Code of Ethics;"
    (2) that they did not seek to change her religious beliefs;
    (3) and that other students who may share her personal beliefs on homosexuality are able to follow the Code.

    Case closed. She wouldn't need to rely on a Christian conservative defense fund if she had a stronger case and could actually prove the University infringed on the free exercise of her religion. A large law firm or the ACLU would have swiftly taken up this cause on her behalf. Many people will let their own personal belief cloud the facts here similar to what you're doing. So her counsel is smart by at least shopping this around to media outlets like Fox News with her pretty face plastered on it. It builds public outcry. That's probably the only way they can at least get a nuisance settlement out of this. Alliance Defense Fund would declare such a settlement a "victory" and use it to propel their own cause. This lady probably won't stand a chance in hell at trial in Federal Court.

    Forcing her to go to gay pride parades among other things, sounds like they are trying to make her change her beliefs to me.

    The school could probably show it using them same fact-twisting attorney's you claim she has. Since theirs cost more, they probably embellish the facts even more.

    The ACLU taken up this cause? Please, they'd sooner drown a child in the river. They don't take cases of rights unless it is defending one of the established minorities.

    @NY: Don't talk to yourself ever then. Razz

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