People who think spanking kids is abuse

Chris wrote:Ultimately, I think it depends on the situation.

If the child is mild mannered, easy to reason with, and if their infraction was minor or common/non-severe, then by all means talk it out. If the heart to heart works, and a 'learning' moment can come out of it, via conversation, then that's terrific–honestly; that's what every parent should hope for. If they love their video games more than life itself, and if confiscating them as punishment is enough to leave a lasting impression, then go that route. But I'm sorry, a two year heading for the outlet with a fork needs to have his hand spanked. A seven year old who decides to scream and break dishes in a temper tantrum because you decided to take his video game from him needs to have his behind slapped.

Some people believe that all children need to be spanked to establish parental 'order' (my old school grandparents thought that) and others believe that no child should ever be hit, no matter how outstandingly bad their transgression is.

I don't agree with either extreme.

How do you know that 2 year old needs his hand spanked? I know a lot of people who haven't ever spanked their kids and none of them died from electrocution. My mom spanked my brother and he still put a fork in a socket AND his finger in a parrots cage. That 7 yo in my house would still lose the game and on top of that she'd be working off the money to replace the plate, to me that makes a lot more sense than hitting her.

I'm not trying to be confrontational or disagreeable, I just obviously have a totally different opinion than all of you and I'm trying to understand why. I know you're all probably great parents, so don't think that I'm judging any of your parenting. That's not my intention, I think plenty of great parents spank their kids. I just don't agree with the method. To me, we teach kids that hitting is bad, why would we do something that we want them to think is "bad" if there are alternatives?

Chris wrote:...Some people believe that all children need to be spanked to establish parental 'order' (my old school grandparents thought that) and others believe that no child should ever be hit, no matter how outstandingly bad their transgression is.

I don't agree with either extreme.

thepossiblepolice wrote:
Spanking is banned in Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Austria, Cyprus, Croatia, Latvia, Israel, Germany, Bulgaria, Iceland, Romania, Ukraine, Hungary, Greece, Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Uruguay, Venezuela, Spain, Republic of Moldova, Costa Rica, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Tunisia, Poland, and Kenya...

And homeschooling is illegal in Germany, one family actually had to apply for asylum in the states to be able to continue it. And there are other countries where it's only allowed if the parents aren't teaching the kids but the teacher from the school, and others only permit it if the child is too ill to go to school with the other kids. Just because other countries ban something doesn't mean it's wrong either.

You know, I used to be a stern supporter in "spankings" and frankly saw nothing wrong with it for years. After all, I was spanked as a child and I turned out okay. Then I started taking psychology and learned a lot more about the mentality behind a spanking as well as the typical results. There are times when a pop on the hand might be appropriate for a toddler who is trying to touch a hot plate. But when most people talk about "spankings", I picture them taking a belt or switch to a 9 year old's backside. We called that a "whoppin" in my day!

I've recently done an about face when it comes to my views on spanking. Most of that has to do with the knowledge that it's A) not the most effective form of discipline for most children, B) has potential negative consequences that are often unforseen by parents, and C) is a form of "discipline" that I consider to be an indication of lazy parenting. Because it's much easier to "spank" a child than it is to "teach" a child, it's often the first form of punishment a parent resorts to (especially if they have unruly children). Not everyone has the time to actually "teach" a child the correct way or to get to the bottom of unruly behavior. It's faster to just take a belt to them and coerce them into submission through intimidation and pain. Kind of like the way a slave "respects" his master! Not true respect, but more of a respect for the whip in the master's hand.

If a child who grows up to see that a "spanking" (a form of violence) is considered to be an acceptable method of discipline, he/she will also most likely believe that violence is an acceptable way to handle any almost any situation that they don't approve of. This can manifest itself in many ways in adolescence and adulthood (peer bullying, domestic abuse, spousal abuse, child abuse, animal abuse, etc). The point is, when people are abused as children (and they don't realize they are being "abused"), they tend to believe that the abuse is justified. The child grows up to be the abuser! The biggest justification for spankings by people who prefer that method of discipline is that because THEY were spanked as a child and "they turned out okay" it means that it's perfectly okay to spank their own children. Violence breeds violence and in this situation the abused has simply become the abuser. They DIDN'T actually turn out "okay", they just turned out to be like their own parents who believed in physical violence as a method of discipline. It doesn't mean that they are not an abuser, it just means that they don't recognize something that was done to them as abuse. I was abused as a child because my parents didn't recognize their actions as abuse, just like their parents before them and so on and so forth!

Chris wrote:Ultimately, I think it depends on the situation.

If the child is mild mannered, easy to reason with, and if their infraction was minor or common/non-severe, then by all means talk it out. If the heart to heart works, and a 'learning' moment can come out of it, via conversation, then that's terrific–honestly; that's what every parent should hope for. If they love their video games more than life itself, and if confiscating them as punishment is enough to leave a lasting impression, then go that route. But I'm sorry, a two year heading for the outlet with a fork needs to have his hand spanked. A seven year old who decides to scream and break dishes in a temper tantrum because you decided to take his video game from him needs to have his behind slapped.

Some people believe that all children need to be spanked to establish parental 'order' (my old school grandparents thought that) and others believe that no child should ever be hit, no matter how outstandingly bad their transgression is.

I don't agree with either extreme.

For the most part. I'm not above spanking.......unless it's with some ridiculous instrument like a drop cord or a frying pan. But I know I will only dule it out when I have to.

ITA with TPP. I said it before and I'll say it again, just about every hoodlum or thug I ever knew was "whooped" as a kid, and look how they turn out! All it does is teach them to use strong arms & violence to get what they want. Hitting a child teaches them nothing (useful) but how to take their anger out on smaller victims. These are the kids who go to school and beat on the weaker kids the same way dad bullies and kicks their ass at home. The opposition thinks that not hitting a kid means letting them run wild and doing whatever they want, without any repercussions and nothing could be further from the truth. If at 3, 4 and 5 years old, you calmly explain why certain behavior is bad and unacceptable, by the time they're 10 they will have a grasp of common sense and will let it dictate their actions.

Supernova wrote:

thepossiblepolice wrote:
Spanking is banned in Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway, Austria, Cyprus, Croatia, Latvia, Israel, Germany, Bulgaria, Iceland, Romania, Ukraine, Hungary, Greece, Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Uruguay, Venezuela, Spain, Republic of Moldova, Costa Rica, Luxembourg, Liechtenstein, Tunisia, Poland, and Kenya...

And homeschooling is illegal in Germany, one family actually had to apply for asylum in the states to be able to continue it. And there are other countries where it's only allowed if the parents aren't teaching the kids but the teacher from the school, and others only permit it if the child is too ill to go to school with the other kids. Just because other countries ban something doesn't mean it's wrong either.

When experts agree that something is damaging, and other countries ban it, I think it should give us pause.

captainbryce wrote:You know, I used to be a stern supporter in "spankings" and frankly saw nothing wrong with it for years. After all, I was spanked as a child and I turned out okay. Then I started taking psychology and learned a lot more about the mentality behind a spanking as well as the typical results. There are times when a pop on the hand might be appropriate for a toddler who is trying to touch a hot plate. But when most people talk about "spankings", I picture them taking a belt or switch to a 9 year old's backside. We called that a "whoppin" in my day!

I've recently done an about face when it comes to my views on spanking. Most of that has to do with the knowledge that it's A) not the most effective form of discipline for most children, B) has potential negative consequences that are often unforseen by parents, and C) is a form of "discipline" that I consider to be an indication of lazy parenting. Because it's much easier to "spank" a child than it is to "teach" a child, it's often the first form of punishment a parent resorts to (especially if they have unruly children). Not everyone has the time to actually "teach" a child the correct way or to get to the bottom of unruly behavior. It's faster to just take a belt to them and coerce them into submission through intimidation and pain. Kind of like the way a slave "respects" his master! Not true respect, but more of a respect for the whip in the master's hand.

If a child who grows up to see that a "spanking" (a form of violence) is considered to be an acceptable method of discipline, he/she will also most likely believe that violence is an acceptable way to handle any almost any situation that they don't approve of. This can manifest itself in many ways in adolescence and adulthood (peer bullying, domestic abuse, spousal abuse, child abuse, animal abuse, etc). The point is, when people are abused as children (and they don't realize they are being "abused"), they tend to believe that the abuse is justified. The child grows up to be the abuser! The biggest justification for spankings by people who prefer that method of discipline is that because THEY were spanked as a child and "they turned out okay" it means that it's perfectly okay to spank their own children. Violence breeds violence and in this situation the abused has simply become the abuser. They DIDN'T actually turn out "okay", they just turned out to be like their own parents who believed in physical violence as a method of discipline. It doesn't mean that they are not an abuser, it just means that they don't recognize something that was done to them as abuse. I was abused as a child because my parents didn't recognize their actions as abuse, just like their parents before them and so on and so forth!

Which is exactly what happened to me. My mom loved me and wanted me to be good, but the only way she knew how to "discipline" was to spank. Add her emotional problems to that and I ended up abused, not "spanked". My mom deeply regrets spanking me now that she sees how well behaved my kids are, and she regrets what spanking led to. When it wasn't effective, it escalated and she didn't have the self control (because she was never taught self control from her parents, who treated her the same way she treated me)to stop herself from taking out her frustrations on me. She didn't want to hurt me, she even used a wooden spoon because she thought it would break before it damaged me, but she still did. When CPS became involved, she was very self righteous and said "Just let them come and try to take you away, I have a right to discipline my own kids..." because she truly believed that what she was doing was discipline and in my best interest.

Now she has changed her mind but she can't go back and undo it. I have the hardest time believing her when she says that she wanted for me all the things that I want for my kids, that she wanted me to grow up to be a whole, healthy, happy and productive person. I *know* that she wanted that because she is my mother and was always saying that she loved me, but I can't *believe* it, because she hurt me so badly.

When I first started my parenting journey, I knew that I would have a zero tolerance policy toward any spanking or slapping, because I am her daughter. What if I lost control?

Then I started taking classes and reading a lot about it, and now I don't spank not because I think I might lose control, but because I believe there are better alternatives.

thepossiblepolice wrote:

Supernova wrote:



And homeschooling is illegal in Germany, one family actually had to apply for asylum in the states to be able to continue it. And there are other countries where it's only allowed if the parents aren't teaching the kids but the teacher from the school, and others only permit it if the child is too ill to go to school with the other kids. Just because other countries ban something doesn't mean it's wrong either.

When experts agree that something is damaging, and other countries ban it, I think it should give us pause.

Our school system is based on the German system, which produced the Nazi party. Sit, stay, good kid. Obedience to authority. Do as you're told. Ask too many questions and you're labeled a troublemaker. Everybody do everything the same way. All that stuff should give us pause.

I agree with what Chris said about extremism. I don't think spanking is the most useful tool in parenting, but neither do I think it will cause horrible damage to smack a child's hand or bottom on an infrequent basis. If you feel like you're always "having to" hit your kids, then that should be a HUGE clue that spanking doesn't work as a first-line intervention. If it worked, you wouldn't have to keep doing it. I think that could be said for all forms of punishment. Teach your kids well, lead by example, show them respect and love....good recipe for good kids, in my experience.