Ok, well in a mature debate, I really wasn't in the mind set of a disgruntled father to be technically be able to harm the mother in order for a miscarriage or "force" her by threats. I was giving consideration only to the guy who finds out a baby is on the way, and does not love the mother, and could not want the baby any less, and what his rights are. He can not choose abortion if mom doesn't want that. But she can choose that even if he wants the child. (Yeah, I know there have been court cases that have ruled in favor of the dad, but that is few and far between.)

Quote :

Men don't need to "realize it" uniquely. Both genders have consequences resulting from irresponsibility.

j

Well, since this is a thread about men and their ability to opt out of fatherhood, I felt I could make a statement targeted to men only and not get nit picked about it.

Shale wrote:

I understand what you're sayin'

Thanks, Shale.

Shale wrote:

I may be part of that scene. In my youth I bedded a woman who was separated from her husband. They soon got back together and she was pregnant. It coulda been either of us but she assured me it was his baby - said she knew. This was before DNA testing and I never questioned it. I think under the Napoleonic law that seemed to govern Louisiana at that time it was his whether bastard or not. Me and her old man looked a bit alike, generic French extraction, so who would ever know?

So, it's possible that a 40-something person out there has my DNA instead of his daddy's.

Daddy!!!

RedBedroom wrote:

Ok, well in a mature debate, I really wasn't in the mind set of a disgruntled father to be technically be able to harm the mother in order for a miscarriage or "force" her by threats. I was giving consideration only to the guy who finds out a baby is on the way, and does not love the mother, and could not want the baby any less, and what his rights are. He can not choose abortion if mom doesn't want that. But she can choose that even if he wants the child. (Yeah, I know there have been court cases that have ruled in favor of the dad, but that is few and far between.)

j

Well, since this is a thread about men and their ability to opt out of fatherhood, I felt I could make a statement targeted to men only and not get nit picked about it.

I think it is very mature to acknowledge that the difference in rights is purely legal. A woman can abort, or a man can force her to/cause a miscarriage himself, at least potentially. The ONLY difference between the two is what the law permits. Thus I don't think it's immature to remind that these differences are merely legal. Other countries could easily make it illegal for a woman to abort without a man's consent, but make it legal for him to force her. Both genders are equally capable of shirking their responsibilities by terminating the kid, only the law swings the pendulum in one direction or the other. Hence, it's a fact of law, not of life.

I don't feel it nitpicking at all.

A fact of life is that the woman will know about the pregnancy, for sure, (though I know that a woman can miscarry early and not know). But I am speaking of full term pregnancies. The woman will know and can very well conceal it from the man and he wouldn't be able to hurt her to force abortion if he couldn't find her or didn't know about the baby. So, the woman very can keep that baby and never let the dad have the option to beat it out of her. So, therefore it is a fact of life that the man is not guaranteed any sort of ability to get rid of the baby even if he is abusive, and a woman is.

So, I will never think it is purely legal. And it is fine that you do. I'm out.

RedBedroom wrote:

A fact of life is that the woman will know about the pregnancy, for sure, (though I know that a woman can miscarry early and not know). But I am speaking of full term pregnancies. The woman will know and can very well conceal it from the man and he wouldn't be able to hurt her to force abortion if he couldn't find her or didn't know about the baby. So, the woman very can keep that baby and never let the dad have the option to beat it out of her. So, therefore it is a fact of life that the man is not guaranteed any sort of ability to get rid of the baby even if he is abusive, and a woman is.

So, I will never think it is purely legal. And it is fine that you do. I'm out.

Women have given birth and not known they were pregnant. Sure, she can try to conceal it from the man but there's also no guarantee he won't find out. Ultimately, both sexes are given the ability to get rid of the kid if they don't want it. (In other words, either parent can kill their child) Since that is really what each "opt out" amounts to, it's clearly not limited to something only one gender has at their disposal.

Fine with me. I never intended for you to take it this long anyway.

The only way a man can opt out of parenthood is if he's willing to go 1/2 on the abortion.

^^^^The LEGAL way.

alan smithee wrote:

Daddy!!!

But srsly, I have had this nagging feeling for some years about a friend in 1980, right before I hooked up with my partner Brenda.

Dede was a lesbian friend and I was very surprised when we ended up in bed at my place. (Gotta realize that ending up in bed with a friend, girl or guy was part of the scene back then). Anyhow, we fucked a few times that week then Dede went back to her G/F and I lost contact. Years later it hit me - I coulda been used.

OH Well! If there is an offspring and if they know my name, I am searchable on the Web. Keep waiting fot that e-mail.
Daddy!!!

On this level I've had a problem with that too for the same reasons. A pregnant woman says she doesn't want a baby and there's organizations of mofos that will argue you down about her right to choose (and if the father wants the baby he's SOL if she's determined to abort); a guy says he doesn't want a baby after he got her pregnant and he's automatically a loser who should have thought about the consequences before he had sex. What, like SHE did?

Then after the whole "I can do whatever I want with my body" matra, once the baby comes, she's lookin at dude to help regardless.

but I don't think there is a way to make this even without cheating an innocent child. So all you really can say is be careful who you fool around with and use birth control.