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    Political Correctness (Your opinion?)

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    Post by RobbieFTW Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:57 am

    What's your take on political correctness? Ok I can admit that it can get a little too silly and uptight sometimes, but I am ALWAYS suspicious of people who are so quick to complain about PC and try to go out of their way to ANTI-Politically Correct. Like their opinions & speech is really being hindered by it.
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    Post by CeCe Wed Dec 01, 2010 11:39 am

    I think "political correctness" has taken on a similar tone as "jump the shark". It's an overused phrase that has completely lost its meaning. When I hear people use it, my ears just tune them out.
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    Post by Supernova Wed Dec 01, 2010 12:55 pm

    My take? Well let's see, instead of Christmas, everybody says 'holiday' because they don't want ANYBODY to be offended, EVEN if the holiday in question IS Christmas...instead of black people use the term African American even though that's an ill conceived term as even white people come from Africa, instead of midget you have to say little person, instead of stewardess, the people who give out pillows and drinks on planes are now called flight attendants, and for it all I gotta wonder WHAT is the point?
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Wed Dec 01, 2010 5:21 pm

    I don't care about political correctness. I am not going to out of my way to be politically incorrect but I also am not going to bend over backwards to not offend people either. People will insult you merely because you don't agree with them so why censor yourself?
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    Post by captainbryce Thu Dec 02, 2010 12:16 am

    Forgiveness_Man wrote:People will insult you merely because you don't agree with them so why censor yourself?
    Sometimes "censoring" yourself is a measure to prevent offending people who haven't insulted you at all, (ie: the random stranger in a public crowd). For instance, I think the word "retarded" is a perfecty acceptable term and I hate the fact that according to "political correctness" its a word that has become inappropriate to say in public (despite the fact that it is medical terminology). I use the word all the time on a regular basis. Regardless, if I see a mother in a supermarket who's kid obviously has Downs Syndrome, I am going to censor my language by not using that term because I wouldn't want to offend her or her child. That is just a form of common respect that people should be accorded don't you think?
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    Post by CatEyes10736 Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:07 am

    ITA with Robbie. 9 times out of 10 I notice the people who go on about PC'ness ruining everything, or that they have to censor themselves under the guise of it, are people who tend to have a rude or inconsiderate POV that they'd love to be able express, but know that if they did it would make them look bad. It mostly boils down to TACT. People who have tact, are polite and considerate of other people in general usually don't complain about political correctness being such a hinderance to their speech.
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    Post by Alan Smithee Thu Dec 02, 2010 1:50 am

    CeCe wrote:I think "political correctness" has taken on a similar tone as "jump the shark". It's an overused phrase that has completely lost its meaning. When I hear people use it, my ears just tune them out.

    CeCe, it may get overused but it has not lost it's meaning. Maybe Chris is familiar with Biggby Coffee. They're a coffee chain that started in Michigan. The company started off with the name Beaner's. Even though it was a clear reference to coffee beans, the name was changed because there were concerns that it was disparaging to Hispanics.

    Or the case of David Howard, one time director of the District of Columbia’s Office of Public Advocate who was forced to resign because when reviewing the services budget with two of his aides, he commented, “I will have to be niggardly with this fund because it’s not going to be a lot of money”. One of the aides, who is black, was offended by what he took to be a racial slur coming from the mouth of Howard, who is white. The word “niggardly” for 600 years has meant “stingy” or “grudging.” It has a lineage that, according to the Barnhard Dictionary of Etymology, reaches back to Middle English of the 1300s when the words nig and ignon meant “miser.” It also goes back to hnoggr, an Old Norse word for “miserly.” Never has the word “niggardly” denoted or implied a racial slur.

    Sometimes it doesn't have anything to do with people pissing and moaning about political correctness because they can't be rude or inconsiderate. Sometimes it's about people who are so hyper sensative that they see insults where none exist. So yeah. Sometimes it is a hiderence.
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Thu Dec 02, 2010 2:29 pm

    alan smithee wrote:Sometimes it's about people who are so hyper sensative that they see insults where none exist.
    I think this is the case much more often than people would care to admit.
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    Post by Jason B. Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:40 pm

    Saw this posted somewhere and co-signs it 100%!

    "In Defense of Political Correctness"

    It's become very trendy these days to dump all over terms and schools of thought that once had much more positive connotations: liberalism, feminism, social democracy, eugenics, evolution theory, scientific method, integration, and Political Correctness.

    Of course in these reactionary times, all of these terms tend to draw extremely negative responses from many people, especially young people who bristle at anything they perceive to be an attempt to engineer (or rewire) their thinking.

    Political Correctness, like many of the other items listed in the first paragraph, is a tool of the social engineer who believes we can improve society by changing the way people think; Using language to reduce bias, increase clarity, and promote a socially justifiable outcome.

    Of course many would understandably dismiss the notion that someone or something else could change how they think.

    But, this engineering has already happened. The stated aims of Political Correctness have been wildly successful; In the corporate world, in academia, in the media, even kindergarten. People from every walk of life spend inordinate amounts of time practicing and learning to say things just right; to avoid offense, to include, to embrace, to share, and to be culturally sensitive in mixed company.

    Has it gone too far? Undoubtedly yes, in some ways. I'm always being corrected for talking out of turn - but I still say "Have a nice Christmas!" But I do not want to go back to the days when exceptional individuals were disparaged as "retards" and "cripples." No thanks. I'll take today's Political Correctness over that any day.

    But if we do remove the obvious excesses of political correctness, we still have to retain a base of "PC" to have a civil society. Every functioning society requires a basic level of Political Correctness to carry out its goals and promote social harmony? Even if it's just minding our manners?
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    Post by Shale Sat Jan 08, 2011 10:55 pm

    "...But if we do remove the obvious excesses of political correctness, we still have to retain a base of "PC" to have a civil society..."

    Therein lies the problem. Where are the boundaries of excessive PC and base PC.
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:07 pm

    Being polite or professional and "political correctness," IMO, are very different things. Not only has it gone too far, it's become an obsession. And it's not applied across the board either.

    Maybe it had good intentions, but political correctness is turning into censorship.
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    Post by Jason B. Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:16 pm

    ^ I disagree. I think if someone has civility and manners, political correctness shouldn't too much stifle anyone's speech. I notice that it's generally the people who are thoughtless and rude who feel like PC is censoring them from being able to express their thoughts.
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:18 pm

    Jason B. wrote:^ I disagree. I think if someone has civility and manners, political correctness shouldn't too much stifle anyone's speech. I notice that it's generally the people who are thoughtless and rude who feel like PC is censoring them from being able to express their thoughts.
    Not what I noticed at all really. I think political correctness has become just something for people to use to shut up things they don't wanna hear. And I've often found those who tout it to be among the more rude as well, but that's just me. I think political correctness doesn't really speak to rudeness at all.
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    Post by Alan Smithee Sat Jan 08, 2011 11:32 pm

    PC does not equal civility. Not anymore. It has had some positive affects such as reducing the use of “retard”, etc. but it has “has devolved into a tyranny of the most offended person in the room.”

    Of course in these reactionary times
    The reactionaries are people like these:

    Xbox Live recently banned Josh Moore for violating its gamers’ code of conduct. His offense? Filling out his Xbox Live profile. You see, Mr. Moore lives in West Virginia. More specifically, in FORT GAY, West Virginia. As Microsoft says, the word “gay” is always offensive. Never mind that several US townships incorporate the word into their name, many people have “Gay” as a first or last name, and some homosexuals do identify themselves as “gay.” No, Microsoft obviously had a wise guy in their midst, and he had to go. So, despite a total lack of customer complaints, Microsoft froze Moore’s account and warned him that he could lose his prepaid subscription if he badgered Customer Service further. Fort Gay Mayor, David Thompson, tried to intervene, but was told that the city’s name didn’t matter; the word “gay” was inappropriate in any context. As a result, Moore missed a Search and Destroy competition and his team lost. Microsoft has since carefully reviewed the matter and reinstated Moore with full Xbox Live privileges (translation: the story hit the web).

    In 2007, Santa Clauses in Sydney, Australia, were forced to revolt for the right to say “Ho Ho Ho”, the traditional laugh of jolly old St. Nick. It turns out that their employer, the recruitment firm Westaff (that supplies hundreds of Santas across Australia), told all trainees that “ho ho ho” could frighten children and be derogatory to women. Why? Because it was too close to the American (not Australian, mind you) slang for prostitute. Instead, the Santas were instructed to lower their voices and say “Ha ha ha”. Westaff relented only after the story broke nationally, deciding to leave the belly laughs “up to the discretion of Santa himself “.

    Administrators at a California high school sent five students home after they refused to remove their American flag T-shirts on Cinco de Mayo, the Mexican Day of Independence. That’s right, kids, you can’t wear your country’s flag in your country, lest it offend someone celebrating the holiday of a different country. The story began when Assistant Principal, Miguel Rodriguez, asked two of the five teens to remove their American flag bandanas. The boys complied, but were still taken to the principal’s office for a chat. One of the boys told NBC “They said we could wear it on any other day, but today is sensitive to Mexican-Americans because it’s supposed to be their holiday, so we were not allowed to wear it.” They are right. It might be a little insensitive to wear an American flag shirt on Cinco De Mayo– if we were in MEXICO.
    And it is an important holiday—IN MEXICO. School District Superintendent Wesley Smith later described the incident as “extremely unfortunate” and said the matter is still under investigation.

    Resisting these and almost countless other examples of this “benign fascism” will not lead us “back to the days when exceptional individuals were disparaged as "retards" and "cripples."
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    Post by Chris Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:35 am

    Political Correctness does go too far, but what I absolutely hate is when people say things that they know is insensitive or disrespectful, and then try and use the anti-PC backlash as a way to thwart being called on it. There is a difference between not bowing to oversensitive politically correct jargon and saying something that was designed to offend. It's like when someone says something racist, then will accuse someone of playing the race card when they point out to them that their comment was offensive.
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    Post by Impact Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:21 am

    Chris wrote:Political Correctness does go too far, but what I absolutely hate is when people say things that they know is insensitive or disrespectful, and then try and use the anti-PC backlash as a way to thwart being called on it. There is a difference between not bowing to oversensitive politically correct jargon and saying something that was designed to offend. It's like when someone says something racist, then will accuse someone of playing the race card when they point out to them that their comment was offensive.

    That's the problem with Political Correctness and oversensitivity, it creates a big enough backlash that allows the real bigots, buffoons and jerks to sneak in and say something legitimately "incorrect", and they can fall back on the smokescreen.
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:36 am

    I think another problem is the notion that people have some right not to be offended. The first people who usually whine about being offended are often the first to thoughtlessly offend others too.
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    Post by Shale Sun Jan 09, 2011 1:10 pm

    Chris wrote:Political Correctness does go too far, but what I absolutely hate is when people say things that they know is insensitive or disrespectful, and then try and use the anti-PC backlash as a way to thwart being called on it. There is a difference between not bowing to oversensitive politically correct jargon and saying something that was designed to offend. It's like when someone says something racist, then will accuse someone of playing the race card when they point out to them that their comment was offensive.

    I often write on racial issues and here is the opening of a letter that was printed in The Gainesville Sun, October 16, 1993:

    "Is it politically correct to point out that most African-Americans have more melanin in their skin than do most European-Americans?

    This is why lighter-skin people suffer more from the effects of sunlight than do people with darker skin. Yet there are those who claim that it's racist to point out such obvious racial differences - even differences beneficial to the darker race.

    Another example is the bone density study done in 1991. It showed that black women were less likely to develop osteoporosis (the loss of bone density) than white women. The researchers were hesitant to release the findings for fear of being accused of being racist...."

    So, I was attacking political correctness that I thot had gone too far. Where does one draw the line?

    There are racial differences - we all see them. I have done massages on ppl and know that most black ppl have low arches in their feet, long lower legs with thin gastrocnemeus muscles. I also notice that most black ppl have that nice bubble-butt. :biggrin:

    Was that last statement politically incorrect? Was it racist?

    BTW, I have thick lower legs, the opposite of most black men. Many black women (sometimes strangers) have complimented me on my sexy legs. My wife even made mention that it was why she targeted me (I was a groundskeeper wearing shorts). She even told her sister before we got involved, "I'm gonna give that white boy some." Hmm, maybe my wife was a racist for mentioning my Euroman attributes. Ya think?


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    Post by Chris Wed Mar 09, 2011 8:21 am

    Even if you're generally an opponent of Political Correctness, do you think that there is ever a time when it's useful?
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Wed Mar 09, 2011 9:25 am

    Ah, not really. Any use of political correctness that may be beneficial is likely something else at play.
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    Post by Marc™ Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:52 am

    RobbieFTW wrote:What's your take on political correctness? Ok I can admit that it can get a little too silly and uptight sometimes, but I am ALWAYS suspicious of people who are so quick to complain about PC and try to go out of their way to ANTI-Politically Correct. Like their opinions & speech is really being hindered by it.

    co-signs
    Political Correctness can be annoyingly anal retentive, but it's not the language chaff that opponents of it love to make it out to be.
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    Post by 2xy Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:35 am

    I do think that PC can be overdone, but I also think that a lot of people who get offended by certain terminology are LOOKING for a reason to be offended. I'm not talking about truly offensive terminology....I'm talking about referring to someone as a "secretary" rather than an "administrative professional."

    Another thought on the term "African American": My friend's boyfriend is mildly offended when people call him AA, because he's not American. He's from France, and is here for college. He's black, thankyouverymuch.
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    Post by Shale Thu Apr 28, 2011 9:56 am

    2xy wrote: ... Another thought on the term "African American": My friend's boyfriend is mildly offended when people call him AA, because he's not American. He's from France, and is here for college. He's black, thankyouverymuch.

    This is a problem, using an identifier for ppl that is diff than their self-identity. Right now where I work we have a young woman of Haitian heritage who was born in the US. Our case manager didn't know how to identify her. She is not African-Haitian or Haitian Amnerican, but here we differentiate blacks by nationality. I said just go with black American.

    I don't like the term African-American because most black ppl from Detroit, Chicago and NY would not last any longer than whites if dropped in the bush of Africa. In other words, yes that is the origin of their particular race, just as mine is from Europe but no one tries to tag me Euro-American (except me).

    So, I would be white-American as opposed to black-American. However, there are Caucasians from India who are darker than most blacks, yet they could be called white. (Ironically, a blond-haired, blue-eyed immigrant from South Africa got all sorts of grief when he CORRECTLY claimed to be "African-American.")

    Oh and not to bust anyone's racial identity bubble, but the Prez is not black - he is mixed race - as much white as he is black. And yet everyone claims he is the first black president.


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    Post by CeCe Thu Apr 28, 2011 10:02 am

    2xy wrote:I do think that PC can be overdone, but I also think that a lot of people who get offended by certain terminology are LOOKING for a reason to be offended. I'm not talking about truly offensive terminology....I'm talking about referring to someone as a "secretary" rather than an "administrative professional."

    Another thought on the term "African American": My friend's boyfriend is mildly offended when people call him AA, because he's not American. He's from France, and is here for college. He's black, thankyouverymuch.

    Years ago I tried the religious conservative thing. The insanity was temporary, thankfully. But these people were always looking for a reason to be offended. And if anyone's beliefs differed from theirs, then those people were being "PC". They used that term for everything. Barnes & Noble had to sell The DaVinci Code because they had to be "PC". A woman was hired for the job because the company had to be "PC". If you believed in funding for special education you were being "PC". I hear it now & immediately tune it out.

    As for African American, I've known people who weren't all that appreciative either. They prefer black. And it's a little ironic considering Charlize Theron & Dave Matthews are technically "African American" too.
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    Post by MandyPerfumeGirl Thu Apr 28, 2011 2:33 pm

    This country is way overboard when it comes to PC. God forbid, we don't want to step on anybody's toes - it may be the end of the world!

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