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    Is forced sterilization ever OK?

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    Post by Chris Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:15 am

    Are you for or against forced sterilization? Like say, for a sex offender or someone who is severely mentally handicapped. Do you think forced sterilization is ever an acceptable practice?
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:18 am

    Which side of me are we talking to? FORGIVENESS MAN
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    Post by Supernova Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:24 am

    It's a very slippery slope, but let's say, like if Andrea Yates were to ever get out of prison, she drowned her four children, why should she be allowed to have another one and do it again?
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    Post by Chris Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:29 am

    Good point Supernova, about Andrea Yates. So let's add child killers to the equation as well. I would think that the goal would be to keep them in prison indefinitely, but if by some oddity one were released, should they be sterilized?
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    Post by CeCe Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:53 am

    I don't want to see the return of eugenics. But I'm not opposed to some form of restrictions. Andrea Yates and Susan Smith are good examples. I don't think someone who has murdered their children should be permitted to keep any children they have later. It's dangerous ground I think but people who have committed these types of crimes shouldn't be allowed to have kids, murder them & continue to have more.

    I'm not entirely opposed to the parents & guardians of severely handicapped children/adults to at least protect their own children from having to deal with a pregnancy when they will not be able to raise the child in any way.

    The US has such an ugly history here with this subject I don't see it ever returning but some type of limitations should be in place for these people.
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    Post by JM130ELM Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:04 am

    I think it's unnecessary where men are concerned. For women I guess it depends. Don't really like the idea though. If someone is that insane or flaky, then they should be being watched and if they conceive then get the state involved when it comes to fate of custody. Far as mental retardation goes, "only a few causes of mental retardation are hereditary, i.e. passed on from parents to children. Mental retardation is often caused by external influences, some of which can be prevented." So that's not a good excuse either.
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    Post by stonestatic Wed Dec 22, 2010 12:27 pm

    No I don't believe the law should force any medical procedure on someone against their will. If someone is unfit enough to be sterilized then just take the baby from them after it's born.
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    Post by Alan Smithee Wed Dec 22, 2010 2:28 pm

    stonestatic wrote:No I don't believe the law should force any medical procedure on someone against their will. If someone is unfit enough to be sterilized then just take the baby from them after it's born.
    co-signs I don't trust The Government to be in charge of making those decisions. As to the question of is it ever OK, I think the parents of a mentally retarded adult (for example) should be allowed to make that decision.
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    Post by RedBedroom Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:45 pm

    As to the question of is it ever OK, I think the parents of a mentally retarded adult (for example) should be allowed to make that decision.

    I totally agree with that.
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    Post by TPP Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:38 am

    I don't think that it should ever be a legal requirement.
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    Post by TSJFan4Ever Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:31 pm

    RedBedroom wrote:
    As to the question of is it ever OK, I think the parents of a mentally retarded adult (for example) should be allowed to make that decision.

    I totally agree with that.

    ITA with this. It can be a very slippery slope, but I think in a case like this, I can see parents being concerned. A friend of mine worked in a long term care facility and he said they had to be very careful at times, as the residents would just go with whatever urges they had and there were times they'd be going at it on top of a table in the dinning room if they weren't stopped in time.
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    Post by Shale Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:30 pm

    alan smithee wrote: ... As to the question of is it ever OK, I think the parents of a mentally retarded adult (for example) should be allowed to make that decision.

    I have been working with developmentally disabled adults for over 30 years and have learned a few things.

    Actually, parents don't have that right. Unless a court adjudicates someone as guardian over another, that other person, even if profoundly retarded is considered legally competent. And even a guardian has limitations as to what medical procedures may be done - and as mentioned forced sterilization is one usually not allowed by law.

    It was not always like this. I do the annual reports of care for many residents and there are a couple of women who were around in the '50s who had hysterectomies. Did the math and these were done when the women were in their teens, usually not the age women get this procedure. This used to be a routine procedure like spaying a cat or dog and it was considered the best for the woman to prevent any chance of pregnancy.

    Now, we acknowledge that mentally retarded ppl have rights like all of us and a right to sexual expression and risk like any of us. Fortunately this is the age of better birth control and all our female residents are on some kind of birth control medication. We also provide space for those residents who wish to get intimate and give them safer sex education and show them how to put on condoms. (We use a life like dildo for this and the MR ppl are more at ease with it than staff in the same course.)

    So, guess I will have to say no, forced sterilization is not going to happen again like it did just a couple generations ago. As for those women who killed their kids - they should never get out of jail.
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    Post by TPP Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:15 pm

    Shale wrote:
    alan smithee wrote: ... As to the question of is it ever OK, I think the parents of a mentally retarded adult (for example) should be allowed to make that decision.

    I have been working with developmentally disabled adults for over 30 years and have learned a few things.

    Actually, parents don't have that right. Unless a court adjudicates someone as guardian over another, that other person, even if profoundly retarded is considered legally competent. And even a guardian has limitations as to what medical procedures may be done - and as mentioned forced sterilization is one usually not allowed by law.

    It was not always like this. I do the annual reports of care for many residents and there are a couple of women who were around in the '50s who had hysterectomies. Did the math and these were done when the women were in their teens, usually not the age women get this procedure. This used to be a routine procedure like spaying a cat or dog and it was considered the best for the woman to prevent any chance of pregnancy.

    Now, we acknowledge that mentally retarded ppl have rights like all of us and a right to sexual expression and risk like any of us. Fortunately this is the age of better birth control and all our female residents are on some kind of birth control medication. We also provide space for those residents who wish to get intimate and give them safer sex education and show them how to put on condoms. (We use a life like dildo for this and the MR ppl are more at ease with it than staff in the same course.)

    So, guess I will have to say no, forced sterilization is not going to happen again like it did just a couple generations ago. As for those women who killed their kids - they should never get out of jail.


    What about cases like the girl who was 9 a few years ago, whose parents were able to get her a hysterectomy right before puberty started because they said it would make it too hard to care for her? I know they had to get permission from the courts but they did allow them to do it.
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    Post by CeCe Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:25 pm

    thepossiblepolice wrote:

    What about cases like the girl who was 9 a few years ago, whose parents were able to get her a hysterectomy right before puberty started because they said it would make it too hard to care for her? I know they had to get permission from the courts but they did allow them to do it.

    I don't go for this at ALL. When something like this is done it needs to be because it's in the best interest of the individual involved, not because it makes things easier for the parents or caretakers, which is all I believed this case was about. I think they just didn't want to deal with this every month. And yes it's difficult. I know that firsthand. But it's just too extreme. If the girl had been in a group home I might be more inclined to believe they were actually thinking of her. But I just don't believe that was what was going on here.
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    Post by Shale Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:22 pm

    thepossiblepolice wrote: What about cases like the girl who was 9 a few years ago, whose parents were able to get her a hysterectomy right before puberty started because they said it would make it too hard to care for her? I know they had to get permission from the courts but they did allow them to do it.
    I am not familiar with such case and did a quick Google to see if it was out there. I didn't find any 9-year-old girl getting sterilized recently but did find a notorious case from 1928
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buck_v._Bell

    Also found out about eugenics sterilizations in the US into the late '60s and early '70s. This was done to black ppl in the south who had babies at 14 out of wedlock. So the practice is part of our ugly history and has pretty much gone out of vogue because of that past abuse.
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    Post by CeCe Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:37 pm

    ^^There was an American case very similar to this but I can't find it.


    Forced sterilization shows inhumane treatment of disabled
    By Chris Heide
    October 12, 2007

    Forced sterilization, while not as widely publicized as abortion, is a highly controversial practice that seems intent on permeating itself throughout our society.

    Alison Thorpe, a London mother, petitioned to have her severely disabled daughter’s womb removed, in order to prevent the girl from experiencing the pain of menstruation.

    While this mother’s attempt to reduce her daughter’s pain is most likely genuine, it can hardly be classified as humane.

    A person’s ability to sexually reproduce is an innate aspect of life. Removing it, even for medicinal purposes, is akin to brutal and primitive castration. It’s completely adversative to the cultural and social refinement of modern society.

    Just as with abortion, a person should have a right to choose how his or her body is treated. It is simply not right. This issue is black and white; no gray area should exist.

    Some argue that the most despicable criminals, especially rapists, should not be allowed to ever reproduce. Surely, many rape victims would accept the castrations of their attackers.

    However, even the most reprehensible individuals have a right to autonomy over their sexual abilities. This is not to say that depraved individuals should not be punished for their actions; they should be.

    In some ways, forced sterilization is less humane than the death penalty, as the recipients of forced sterilization must live with the consequences of the actions taken against them. Freedom over one’s body must always be protected, especially from the government.

    The United States’ moral entanglement with forced sterilization and the disabled is nothing new. More than 80 years ago, a Supreme Court decision upheld a state statute that required a mentally disabled woman to undergo sterilization procedures. In this case, Buck v. Bell, the court justified its decision as “for the protection and health of the state.”

    While this decision was later overturned, it illustrates an important point. People are often too willing to wash their hands clean of the mentally and physically deficient people in this world.

    For Thorpe to suggest that such a painful procedure would be in the best interest of her daughter, Katie, is completely asinine. While Katie may not be able to make legal decisions for herself, that does not mean that her wishes should not be considered, nor does it mean that her body should not be protected.

    It is merely the selfish attempt of a tired mother to alleviate her own pain instead of helping her daughter live with cerebral palsy.

    Most agree that parenting is the most difficult job in the world, and parents often sacrifice much of their own lives in order to provide their children with a stable upbringing. Anything that can be done to eliminate these pressures should be done. However, there must be limitations.

    “It is very difficult to see how this kind of invasive surgery, which is not medically necessary and which will be very painful and traumatic, can be in Katie’s best interests,” Andy Rickell, executive director of the disability charity Scope, told The Press Association. “This case raises fundamental ethical issues about the way our society treats disabled people and the respect we have for disabled people’s human and reproductive rights.”

    The rights of disabled people deserve the same considerations as those of all other people. They must no longer be marginalized and ignored. For any other group of people, anything less would be considered unjust.

    This case is akin to another sterilization that occurred in Seattle in 2004. The parents of a girl named Ashley had her reproductive organs removed, preventing Ashley from enduring puberty and entering adulthood.

    “Ashley will be moved and taken on trips more frequently and will have more exposure to activities and social gatherings … instead of lying down in her bed staring at [a] TV all day long,” according to her parents.

    They were trying to improve Ashley’s quality of life by effectively keeping her a child.

    While forced sterilization may be convenient for those surrounding a disabled person, it is unlikely that the disabled person, despite mental or physical limitations, would welcome such a painful and invasive procedure.

    Convenience cannot triumph over human rights. The fact that these cases even exist is disturbingly indicative of our convenience-minded society. As cliché as it may sound, the right thing is not always the easiest to do.

    [Reach columnist Chris Heide at opinion@thedaily.washington.edu.]




    http://dailyuw.com/2007/10/12/forced-sterilization-shows-inhumane-treatment-of/

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