What do you think?

Quote :

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/ontario/catholic-school-students-sent-home-for-displaying-pro-choice-stance/article1943512/

Catholic school students sent home for displaying pro-choice stance
KATE HAMMER
EDUCATION REPORTER— From Wednesday's Globe and Mail
Published Tuesday, Mar. 15, 2011 8:12PM EDT
Last updated Wednesday, Mar. 16, 2011 2:11PM EDT


She was minutes into her first-period drama class last Thursday at St. Patrick High School when she was called to the office and sent home.

Alexandria left, but the soft-spoken Grade 10 student had started a movement: In a show of solidarity, 24 of her peers followed suit, adhering green tape to their uniforms. Four of them were also sent home, some for a two-day suspension.

The suspensions, and the faith-fuelled debate behind them, are the latest evidence of growing friction between religion and public education in Canada.

Catholic schools are struggling to bridge a growing divide between popular opinion and church doctrine, and the strain is showing: A Catholic school board near Toronto won international notoriety in January after it banned gay-straight alliances, and a bedroom community near Edmonton, where Catholic education is the only public option, is currently embroiled in a battle for residents’ right to a doctrine-free education.

The increasing challenges facing Catholic educators have nothing to do with recent events at St. Patrick High School, according to John De Faveri, director of education with the Thunder Bay Catholic District School Board.

“It wasn’t anything about what the students were trying to say; it was the inappropriate way they went about it,” he said. “They didn’t get approval from the school. They didn’t do anything of the sort.”

The students who wore an anti-abortion message were allowed to remain at school because their event had been approved by the school’s administration. The stickers were part of an annual Day of Silent Solidarity in which students take a vow of silence in order to raise money for an anti-abortion student group.

The students who wore a pro-choice message hadn’t asked for permission and some swore or were belligerent to teachers, Mr. De Faveri said.

“My opinion is that if they don’t want to allow both sides to express their opinion, they shouldn’t allow either one of them,” said Ann Szeglet, Alexandria’s mother.

Though the Vatican has taken a clear stand against abortion, the faith’s followers are more divided and there are a number of Catholic pro-choice groups.

“I felt like I shouldn’t have to be silent,” Alexandria said.

You go a private school, you follow their rules. Or else, you accept the consequences of not doing so. Don't like what the Church teaches? Then why be Catholic? Baffles me every time lukewarm Catholics bitch about what the Church teaches. Unlike with a government, you can simply walk away. Public schools don't allow the other side all the time so I say it's even more fair that this school did this. (Of course, I'd need to probe deeper because again, the language of the article already indicates bias and therefore I question it's story.) It always amazes me how people get so wrapped up in Church teaching when they don't believe it.

So yes, I do think it was fair. A private institution has the right to make whatever rules it wants. THEY have a right to CHOOSE too! And they exercised it.

If it's in violation of the schools dress code, then they can be sanctioned for it.

^^^Yup.

Although I must say that if the only education available in my area was religious education, I would move.

^^Yeah. "...where Catholic education is the only public option..." There's an oxymoron!

Catholic education isn't typically available in the average given area even if they have a lot of Catholic schools!

^^^ Yep to the previous 3. Altho I admire the outspoken girl for exercisng her dissent to the fucked up education she is receiving, Catholic school is private and parochial so they have a right to indoctrinate students as per the Catholic family wishes.

However, IDK how it is in Canada, but if those Catholic schools got ANY public money, then there should have been a helluva protest from more than the students.

Well it is a private school, so not a lot of social freedom can be expected. But let's not pretend that there isn't a strong bias being pushed onto these kids. If it was a sticker promoting a random Catholic value, chances are the "dress code" violation wouldn't be an issue. This is more about punishing somebody for thinking outside the box and daring to express it.

^^^^^^ just like all the secular schools punish the Christian kids for the same reasons.

Let's also not pretend that these kids were merely trying to innocently express their views. You go to a Catholic school, you know what is taught about such things. If you got a problem with it, choose another school. These kids were just trying to be troublemakers. When you go to a Catholic school, you knowingly assume the bias. If they were really thinking outside the box in their protest, they wouldn't be going to a school who teaches religious views that they don't agree with.

Forgiveness Man wrote:

You go a private school, you follow their rules. Or else, you accept the consequences of not doing so. Don't like what the Church teaches? Then why be Catholic? Baffles me every time lukewarm Catholics bitch about what the Church teaches. Unlike with a government, you can simply walk away. Public schools don't allow the other side all the time so I say it's even more fair that this school did this. (Of course, I'd need to probe deeper because again, the language of the article already indicates bias and therefore I question it's story.) It always amazes me how people get so wrapped up in Church teaching when they don't believe it.

So yes, I do think it was fair. A private institution has the right to make whatever rules it wants. THEY have a right to CHOOSE too! And they exercised it.

Despite Forgiveness Man's erroneous assumption that every person who attends Catholic school is in fact Catholic (I attended a Catholic school in my youth at some point), I essentially agree with him. The fact is, nobody has forced this individual to attend this school. If you don't want to abide by their rules, then go to public school instead. While a public school might not be allowed to discriminate on these grounds, a private school can.

captainbryce wrote:

Forgiveness Man wrote:

You go a private school, you follow their rules. Or else, you accept the consequences of not doing so. Don't like what the Church teaches? Then why be Catholic? Baffles me every time lukewarm Catholics bitch about what the Church teaches. Unlike with a government, you can simply walk away. Public schools don't allow the other side all the time so I say it's even more fair that this school did this. (Of course, I'd need to probe deeper because again, the language of the article already indicates bias and therefore I question it's story.) It always amazes me how people get so wrapped up in Church teaching when they don't believe it.

So yes, I do think it was fair. A private institution has the right to make whatever rules it wants. THEY have a right to CHOOSE too! And they exercised it.

Despite Forgiveness Man's erroneous assumption that every person who attends Catholic school is in fact Catholic (I attended a Catholic school in my youth at some point), I essentially agree with him. The fact is, nobody has forced this individual to attend this school. If you don't want to abide by their rules, then go to public school instead. While a public school might not be allowed to discriminate on these grounds, a private school can.

I didn't assume that. I was merely going on the article's assertion that the Catholic flock doesn't like what the Church has to say on the matter! I fully realize that some non-Catholics go to Catholic school. (You went to a Catholic school for a time? That explains so much. ) It just doesn't make a difference.

Forgiveness Man wrote:

I didn't assume that. I was merely going on the article's assertion that the Catholic flock doesn't like what the Church has to say on the matter! I fully realize that some non-Catholics go to Catholic school. (You went to a Catholic school for a time? That explains so much. ) It just doesn't make a difference.

The article made no mention of ANY of the students being "Catholic". And no, me going to a Catholic school really shouldn't explain anything since I was 6 years old at the time, had no individual concept of religion and simply did what I was told. I didn't even KNOW that it was a catholic school until I was older anyway! Don't read too much into that.

captainbryce wrote:

Forgiveness Man wrote:

I didn't assume that. I was merely going on the article's assertion that the Catholic flock doesn't like what the Church has to say on the matter! I fully realize that some non-Catholics go to Catholic school. (You went to a Catholic school for a time? That explains so much. ) It just doesn't make a difference.

The article made no mention of ANY of the students being "Catholic". And no, me going to a Catholic school really shouldn't explain anything since I was 6 years old at the time, had no individual concept of religion and simply did what I was told. I didn't even KNOW that it was a catholic school until I was older anyway! Don't read too much into that.

The article explicitly mentions the divide among the faith's "followers" as well as "Catholic Pro-Choice" groups. (I hear they have nudist groups pushing for more modest dress too. ) I was largely speaking to that claim.

I actually think it does explain quite a bit though. It shouldn't, but well, tis life.

Forgiveness Man wrote:

The article explicitly mentions the divide among the faith's "followers" as well as "Catholic Pro-Choice" groups. (I hear they have nudist groups pushing for more modest dress too. ) I was largely speaking to that claim.

It didn't sound like it. It sounded like you were commentents were about STUDENTS! Your quote was this: You go to a Catholic school, you know what is taught about such things. If you got a problem with it, choose another school. The fact that there is a rift between the "followers" and the "Catholic Pro-Choice groups" doesn't seem to be relevant to that at all.

Forgiveness Man wrote:

I actually think it does explain quite a bit though. It shouldn't, but well, tis life.

Alright the, what exactly do you think it explains? Do tell?

captainbryce wrote:

Forgiveness Man wrote:

The article explicitly mentions the divide among the faith's "followers" as well as "Catholic Pro-Choice" groups. (I hear they have nudist groups pushing for more modest dress too. ) I was largely speaking to that claim.

It didn't sound like it. It sounded like you were commentents were about STUDENTS! Your quote was this: You go to a Catholic school, you know what is taught about such things. If you got a problem with it, choose another school. The fact that there is a rift between the "followers" and the "Catholic Pro-Choice groups" doesn't seem to be relevant to that at all.

Forgiveness Man wrote:

I actually think it does explain quite a bit though. It shouldn't, but well, tis life.

Alright the, what exactly do you think it explains? Do tell?

And what is wrong with that comment? It doesn't say that the students are Catholic. It says that they know going in what bias they are embracing, and if they got a problem with it, they should choose another school. Nothing in that comment mentioned the students. The article DID bring up the "followers." I spoke to them, AND to the students as well.

I got a lot against many so-called Catholic Schools. That's all you need to know.

Forgiveness Man wrote:

And what is wrong with that comment? It doesn't say that the students are Catholic. It says that they know going in what bias they are embracing, and if they got a problem with it, they should choose another school.

Nothing is wrong with it, except that it's based on an assumption that isn't always right. How many kids actually have a say in WHICH school they attend? Kids generally go to the school of their PARENTS choice, not vice versa! On top of that, the kids themselves may NOT know the rules or biases until they actually experience it firsthand. I'm not saying that they were right, I'm just saying that its very presumptuous of you to assume that they are somehow at fault for choosing the school they went to.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for you to explain to me exactly how me going to a Catholic School once upon a time "figures" anything in particular.

captainbryce wrote:

Forgiveness Man wrote:

And what is wrong with that comment? It doesn't say that the students are Catholic. It says that they know going in what bias they are embracing, and if they got a problem with it, they should choose another school.

Nothing is wrong with it, except that it's based on an assumption that isn't always right. How many kids actually have a say in WHICH school they attend? Kids generally go to the school of their PARENTS choice, not vice versa! On top of that, the kids themselves may NOT know the rules or biases until they actually experience it firsthand. I'm not saying that they were right, I'm just saying that its very presumptuous of you to assume that they are somehow at fault for choosing the school they went to.

Oh, and I'm still waiting for you to explain to me exactly how me going to a Catholic School once upon a time "figures" anything in particular.

If their parents chose the school, then I blame them for letting their kids go like that. And frankly at this age, I expect more from the kids regardless of what they knew going in.

It's more a semi-joking comment about my observances about the failures of so-called Catholic schools.

Forgiveness Man wrote:

If their parents chose the school, then I blame them for letting their kids go like that. And frankly at this age, I expect more from the kids regardless of what they knew going in.

It's more a semi-joking comment about my observances about the failures of so-called Catholic schools.

I think you expect too much from people (parents AND kids). I've learned along time ago to have low expectations. That way, I go through life being occasionally pleasently surprised rather than constantly dissappointed.

Hey, I resemble that!

That's my motto! I don't have high expectations for anybody. I guess I sometimes have two different kids of exceptions. I have ACTUAL expectations, and another kind I've yet to name. I am not "disappointed" in these kids at all. But I am also not going to hold back either.

You told me to tell you. If it makes you feel better, this failure is not necessarily academic.

I'm confused. I thought it's a public school? Weird to have a religious public school, imo, but whatever.

Is it public or private? I guess it doesn't really matter, if they have a dress code that says anything about wearing things of an inflammatory nature like the public schools that I went to up until 8th grade did, I guess they broke the rule.

thepossiblepolice wrote:

I'm confused. I thought it's a public school? Weird to have a religious public school, imo, but whatever.

Is it public or private? I guess it doesn't really matter, if they have a dress code that says anything about wearing things of an inflammatory nature like the public schools that I went to up until 8th grade did, I guess they broke the rule.

You're right, this one IS a public school (although most Catholic schools in the US are technically private schools). This is just one of those weird situations where a Catholic school is publically funded and exists in an area absent of non-religious public schools.

A Catholic school board near Toronto won international notoriety in January after it banned gay-straight alliances, and a bedroom community near Edmonton, where Catholic education is the only public option

That is what makes this article so interesting and polarizing. Catholic schools really should NOT be public schools because then you are crossing the line of seperation of church and state and forcing religion down people's throats.

[quote="captainbryce"]

thepossiblepolice wrote:

...
That is what makes this article so interesting and polarizing. Catholic schools really should NOT be public schools because then you are crossing the line of seperation of church and state and forcing religion down people's throats.

I was under the impression that this school was in Canada. If it was in the U.S. that would be a very big issue violating the establishment clause of our constitution. Perhaps they don't have that separation of religion and government by law in Canada. But, I would be surprised if this did not incite a bigger issue amongst any non-religious ppl having to put their kids in a parochial school that was publicly funded.

A CathOlic public school? They exist? Lol oh well. Lol we all gotta deal with somebody else's bias in school. They just gotta suck it up like us Christian kids gotta do.

No it wasn't fair simply because they would allow the contrary message to be expressed without problem.

RobbieFTW wrote:

No it wasn't fair simply because they would allow the contrary message to be expressed without problem.

and in a Catholic school, that is something you should be prepared for going in. Public schools have their double standards and Catholic schools have theirs.