Home
EXACTLY!!!TSJFan4Ever wrote:There are pros and cons to ALL kinds of school - high school, private school, home-schooling. There's never going to be a perfect system that fits all kids, which is why I'm glad we have options. Many of my friends went to public school and not all of them had great experiences , but many did. Some of my friends were home schooled and not all of them had great experiences, but some did. I've had a few friends who've gone to private schools and again, not all of them had great experiences, but some did. Homeschooling is great for some kids, but not for all, just as public school is great for some kids but not for all.
What bothers me is when people think there's only one method - that home-schooling is the only way to go or public schools are the onyl way to go. A good friend of mine has 2 kids who went through public school and are doing great at university, one son still in middle school and another son in a private school. The son in the private school needed a little bit of extra attention in his schooling and is now thriving. Public school can't be an entire failure, because lots of kids are graduating from public school and going on to be very successful. It's not right for everyone but it's not wrong for everyone, either.
+11
rienpoet
Ashuri Chan
Cheaps
TSJFan4Ever
2xy
Supernova
Forgiveness Man
Jason B.
Alan Smithee
Nystyle709
RobbieFTW
15 posters
Is high school necessary?
Shale- ...is a Chamber Royal.
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Miami Beach
Posts : 9699
Rep : 219
TSJFan4Ever- …is a Chamber Royal.
Join date : 2010-03-28
Posts : 5362
Rep : 78
Thanks Shale. 
I just get tired of seeing the public school system bashed and isolated examples pulled out to "prove" that there seems to be wrong with public schools.
Supernova - I have met people who think homeschooling is the ONLY way to go and that are kids are being brainwashed in the public system. I listened to a co-worker go on and on and on about how horrible public school was and how homeschooling was so much better and that public schools brained-washed kids into particular "dogmas". The school curriculum was written by people who knew NOTHING about kids and that parents who sent their kids to school were only looking for free babysitting and didn't care enough to educate their children themselves. She bragged about how her method, "unschooling", was the best and so on.
Most of the people I know don't believe that public school is the way to go and I've worked with teachers who've actually suggested alternative methods for children for whom the public school isn't working. Maybe things are just that different in Canada, or at least where I live.
I just get tired of seeing the public school system bashed and isolated examples pulled out to "prove" that there seems to be wrong with public schools.Supernova - I have met people who think homeschooling is the ONLY way to go and that are kids are being brainwashed in the public system. I listened to a co-worker go on and on and on about how horrible public school was and how homeschooling was so much better and that public schools brained-washed kids into particular "dogmas". The school curriculum was written by people who knew NOTHING about kids and that parents who sent their kids to school were only looking for free babysitting and didn't care enough to educate their children themselves. She bragged about how her method, "unschooling", was the best and so on.
Most of the people I know don't believe that public school is the way to go and I've worked with teachers who've actually suggested alternative methods for children for whom the public school isn't working. Maybe things are just that different in Canada, or at least where I live.
2xy- …is an Up 'N Comer.
Join date : 2011-03-03
Location : Providence, RI
Posts : 289
Rep : 22
Yes, I've met people from both sides (pro-school and anti-school) who are extremists. I've met far more pro-school extremists than anti-school extremists, though. Those in both camps are annoying and misguided, IMO.
However, I don't think anyone here was suggesting that all kids should be pulled out of school. Personally, I was merely trying to end the perpetuation of ignorance regarding homeschoolers. And also, I think "options" and "choices" for teens should include leaving school to learn elsewhere or in another manner; working is learning in another manner. For some kids, learning to fix cars and run a business will serve them far better than wading through another year of school curricula. Lack of interest is not conducive to learning. Keeping those kids in school for the sake of principle is nonsense. Schools want to keep those kids there in order to retain funding, and not because it's actually good for those kids.
However, I don't think anyone here was suggesting that all kids should be pulled out of school. Personally, I was merely trying to end the perpetuation of ignorance regarding homeschoolers. And also, I think "options" and "choices" for teens should include leaving school to learn elsewhere or in another manner; working is learning in another manner. For some kids, learning to fix cars and run a business will serve them far better than wading through another year of school curricula. Lack of interest is not conducive to learning. Keeping those kids in school for the sake of principle is nonsense. Schools want to keep those kids there in order to retain funding, and not because it's actually good for those kids.
Supernova- The Book Chamber
Join date : 2010-06-22
Posts : 11954
Rep : 182
This is true, and something I'd like to elaborate on...WHY is it you have to be 17-18 to graduate high school? Does anybody wonder that? A couple years back I was reading Mary Roberts Rinehart's autobiography, SHE graduated high school at 16 and went right to work as a nurse in a hospital...why back around the WWI era was 16 years enough and they could do that extreme work then, but now it's 18 and then you have to have 4 years of college on top of it to get any good job anymore? The big problem is all employers are so diploma/degree crazy, they really don't care if you CAN do the work, they only care if you have that stupid piece of paper.
Shale- ...is a Chamber Royal.
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Miami Beach
Posts : 9699
Rep : 219
OK, you can't really compare an unregulated ancient era with that of today. Back when a girl could become a field nurse under 18 was also the age when sweatshops in New York had boys and girls working for a pittance (economic slavery). Some do-gooder saw this as exploitation and the laws were set, usually at 18 for full time paid employment. Also, 18 is required for personal care work as that is the age ppl are considered mature enuf to deal with the human condition.Supernova wrote:...WHY is it you have to be 17-18 to graduate high school? Does anybody wonder that? A couple years back I was reading Mary Roberts Rinehart's autobiography, SHE graduated high school at 16 and went right to work as a nurse in a hospital...why back around the WWI era was 16 years enough and they could do that extreme work then, but now it's 18 and then you have to have 4 years of college on top of it to get any good job anymore? The big problem is all employers are so diploma/degree crazy, they really don't care if you CAN do the work, they only care if you have that stupid piece of paper.
As for the higher education requirement in medicine, that is also obvious. In 1914-18 medicine was not so complicated. Nurses were also subservient to doctors and did mostly vitals and domestic duties in the hospital wards. Mortality was quite high and unless Carlyle Cullen treated you, influenza would do you in.
There are always cases that beat the standard age requirements. I had an uncle that dropped out of school and inlisted in the Marines at 15 by lying about his age and died in the Pacific War at 19. My mom ran off with my dad at 14 during the same war years. It was all 'paperwork' back then with only carbon copies and hard to track.
Shale- ...is a Chamber Royal.
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Miami Beach
Posts : 9699
Rep : 219
2xy wrote:...And also, I think "options" and "choices" for teens should include leaving school to learn elsewhere or in another manner; working is learning in another manner. For some kids, learning to fix cars and run a business will serve them far better than wading through another year of school curricula...
Again, my high school in Overland Missouri may have been progressive or it could have been the era of the early '60s, but we had courses set to practical education. Either in shop or working part time at a trade. Ppl realized that not everyone was going to be an engineer (the major aspiration of guys in my yearbook). Girls were mostly going to be nurses or secretaries. We even had home-economics classes back then for the majority of girls who would be "housewives."
Homeschooling is a new concept so my education in high school in the 60s has no relevance to that (which if off topic to this original post) but I felt my education was good for the time. Also, my time was where men could be drafted - and were - at 18, so might as well stay in high school. Why make plans when you could be put into a slave army at any time to fight ppl you had no real quarrel with.
2xy wrote: ...13) Stop assuming that because the word "home" is right there in "homeschool," we never leave the house. We're the ones who go to the amusement parks, museums, and zoos in the middle of the week and in the off-season and laugh at you because you have to go on weekends and holidays when it's crowded and icky.
...
This flexibility is one of the things with homeschooling that can be more educational. My grandson was homeschooled, so when I planned a trip to visit family in St. Louis - traveling by way of New Orleans during the school year, he was able to accompany me. It was a bunch of first experiences for him, riding a train, a ferry on a very large Mississippi River, seeing the French Quarter and riding the St. Charles car thru New Orleans uptown. And we stopped by the New Orleans Museum of art. When in St. Louis we went to the Zoo, Science Museum and Art Museum. While waiting for my sister to get off work we hung out in downtown St. Louis visiting the Soldiers Memorial and other places I hung out at his age (13).
I think it was educational and a valuable experience for him that he would have had to miss had he been in a regular, regulated school. In fact, he almost got picked up by truant officers while in the mall at Union Station in St. Louis. I was in the john and when I came out these cops had him (black kid hanging out in a mall during a school day was an easy target).
Here's the account of a 'truant' kid and his grampa's travels.
http://home.earthlink.net/~robandkevintrip/index.html
Also, I just noticed a quote from Kevin who wrote most of the content from this visit:
"Then, here comes the best part.
We visited the Soldiers' Memorial Military Museum and saw lots of guns.
Opa is really smart too. He could be a teacher.
We saw some of the uniforms, even ones from the nazis!!!
I learned a lot."
Nystyle709- ...is a 20G Chamber DIETY.
Join date : 2010-03-16
Location : New York
Posts : 27030
Rep : 339
[quote="2xy"]
You're doing homework? Interesting. For what may I ask? And why haven't you answered my question? The 'book' doesn't do it for me. I asked YOU what do YOU think children should be doing if they shouldn't be required to attend school. Answer it please and stop deflecting the question. It's a lot easier and if your answer is interesting enough, then maybe I'd wade through 400 some odd pages and read the little book that you've recommended.
rienpoet wrote:Nystyle, if you are truly interested in answers, I recommend The Teenage Liberation Handbook for some light reading. Someone was thoughtful enough to post the entire book online. I have homework to do.
You're doing homework? Interesting. For what may I ask? And why haven't you answered my question? The 'book' doesn't do it for me. I asked YOU what do YOU think children should be doing if they shouldn't be required to attend school. Answer it please and stop deflecting the question. It's a lot easier and if your answer is interesting enough, then maybe I'd wade through 400 some odd pages and read the little book that you've recommended.
2xy- …is an Up 'N Comer.
Join date : 2011-03-03
Location : Providence, RI
Posts : 289
Rep : 22
I'm going to school for diagnostic medical sonography.
The reason I haven't answered your question is because it appears to be an exercise in futility to discuss this subject with you. I truly do not believe you will be satisfied with any answer I give.
The reason I haven't answered your question is because it appears to be an exercise in futility to discuss this subject with you. I truly do not believe you will be satisfied with any answer I give.
sailorlover- …is an Up 'N Comer.
Join date : 2011-03-10
Location : Pensacola, FL
Posts : 190
Rep : 2
I guess I'm the odd man out on this subject. I believe that high school is absolutely needed to develop a well rounded young adult. Yes, of course, many high school students have after-school and weekend jobs. This is preparing them for the actual workforce after finishing school. Do you realize the difference in income vs a high school graduate (or GED)and a drop out? How responsible does it show a company you are applying to if you can't even apply yourself to finish and recieve a high school diploma. IMO, this is why the medicare program is going broke. Because high school drop outs are realizing that they can make more off the gov't, for money and food, then holding down a job and providing for their family. I saw a commercial the other day that said 1 in every 3 children in the USA drop out of high school. What are these children thinking or should I say what are they not thinking? Why should it even be a choice as to whether or not children, in this country, a child can drop out and not earn a diploma? What are these parents saying if they allow their children to drop out? Usually when this happens, the parent is a high school drop out. I bet if you went and asked all the homeless, if they have a high school diploma or GED, you'd find about 95% of them don't. What does that say to our children now, that are coming up the ranks? It says that you have the choice to slack off and not get an education. This crap about not learning anything in high school is just plain and simple, shit! You can't seriously tell me you learned nothing in high school!
As for college, that is a choice. College is expensive. However, if you attend high school and do well, scholarships that pay for all or at least half is possible. Some members of society may make the choice to not take out loans and grants to attend college. However, compare the income of a college graduate and a person with a high school diploma or GED. There is a significant difference in income. Not just a few thousands but millions of dollars. What person would not want to make that extra mega bucks just because they didn't want to apply themselves for 4-5 years?
As for my 3 children, there is no choice of whether they graduate high school or not. They will, no questions needed to be asked. I do have a daughter that has a learning disability and I'm sure it would be easy to take the easy way out and drop out of high school to not have to struggle with this learning disability. But no, she will learn how to deal with this disability while attending high school. The special ed program that she is in, only allows her to get a GED not a diploma but that is just as good to me. As for plans after high school, my husband and I have gave them 2 choices: College or Military. Pick one.
All this is just my strong opinion.
As for college, that is a choice. College is expensive. However, if you attend high school and do well, scholarships that pay for all or at least half is possible. Some members of society may make the choice to not take out loans and grants to attend college. However, compare the income of a college graduate and a person with a high school diploma or GED. There is a significant difference in income. Not just a few thousands but millions of dollars. What person would not want to make that extra mega bucks just because they didn't want to apply themselves for 4-5 years?
As for my 3 children, there is no choice of whether they graduate high school or not. They will, no questions needed to be asked. I do have a daughter that has a learning disability and I'm sure it would be easy to take the easy way out and drop out of high school to not have to struggle with this learning disability. But no, she will learn how to deal with this disability while attending high school. The special ed program that she is in, only allows her to get a GED not a diploma but that is just as good to me. As for plans after high school, my husband and I have gave them 2 choices: College or Military. Pick one.
All this is just my strong opinion.
Nystyle709- ...is a 20G Chamber DIETY.
Join date : 2010-03-16
Location : New York
Posts : 27030
Rep : 339
2xy wrote:I'm going to school for diagnostic medical sonography.
Nice.
The reason I haven't answered your question is because it appears to be an exercise in futility to discuss this subject with you. I truly do not believe you will be satisfied with any answer I give.
LOL. I don't think that's the reason. This is a discussion right? It's futile to discuss a subject with someone who has different opinion that yours? Why are you concerned with me being 'satisfied' with your answer? Especially since I'm not the only one who disagrees with you. I am asking you an honest question and I'm looking for an honest answer. What's futile is how you are hellbent on deflecting it. But it's okay. If you want me to assume, then I will.
Shale- ...is a Chamber Royal.
Join date : 2010-09-27
Location : Miami Beach
Posts : 9699
Rep : 219
No, there are a couple of us who agree that it is necessary to graduate from high school. Whether a kid learns anything worthwhile is debatable (I did) but the HS diploma is not. It is part of the procedure of our work environment.sailorlover wrote:I guess I'm the odd man out on this subject. ...
All places of employment that I have applied to had EDUCATION on the application where you check off the highest level achieved. (OK maybe the oil rig in Mississippi where my uncle was the Toolpusher didn't ask but all others did). It is a formality and HS Diploma is the start (or in my case highest level). Many jobs, even direct care asswipe jobs still require a MINIMUM of high school or GED.
Even in 1963, I couldn't join the Air Force until finishing HS. The Army would accept HS dropouts back then, there was a war going on and weapons weren't so hi-tech. I missed the real war - AF put me in an office to fight the Cold War. This was based on my scores on their aptitude test, but 4 years of HS probably prepped me for that.
So, it is the system. Hate it if you will but it is the system we operate in.
» NEW ADDRESS: http://conversationchamber.ipbhost.com/
» New project
» st pattys day
» White smoke signals cardinals have selected a new pope
» Red?
» Do You Look Like a Celebrity?
» Canned Foods
» English Muffins or Toast?