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    France starts ban on full-face veil

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    France starts ban on full-face veil Empty France starts ban on full-face veil

    Post by tmontyb Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:11 am

    What do you think of this?



    Mon Apr 11, 4:15 am ET

    PARIS (Reuters
    ) – France's ban on full face veils, a first in Europe, went into force on Monday, and anyone wearing the Muslim niqab or burqa in public could now face a fine of 150 euros ($216), or lessons in French citizenship.

    The center-right government, which passed the law in October, has rolled out a public relations campaign to explain the ban and the rules of its application that includes posters, pamphlets and a government-hosted web site.

    Guidelines spelled out in the pamphlet forbid police from asking women to remove their burqa or full-face veil in the street. They will instead be escorted to a police station and asked to remove the veil there for identification.

    Widely criticized by Muslims abroad as impinging on their religious freedom, the law has provoked a limited backlash in France where a strict separation of church and state is seen as central to maintaining a peaceful civil society.

    A Muslim property dealer is urging women to engage in "civil disobedience" by continuing to wear the veil if they so desire and has called on supporters to hold a silent prayer in protest of the ban in front of the Notre Dame Cathedral.

    Rachid Nekkaz, the property dealer, said in a webcast he would help pay fines and was putting a property worth around two million euros up for sale to fund his campaign.

    "The street is the universal home of freedom and nobody should challenge that so long as these woman are not impinging on anyone else's freedom," he said. "I am calling on all free women who so wish to wear the veil in the street and engage in civil disobedience," he said.

    In the southern city of Avignon, Reuters TV filmed a woman boarding a train wearing a burqa, unchallenged by police.

    "It's not an act of provocation," said Kenza Drider, wearing a full-face veil on the train. "I'm only carrying out my citizens' rights, I'm not committing a crime ... If they (police) ask me for identity papers I'll show them, no problem."

    France's five-million-strong Muslim minority is Western Europe's largest, but fewer than 2,000 women are believed actually to wear a full face veil.

    Many Muslim leaders have said they support neither the veil nor the law banning it.

    On Saturday, French police arrested around 60 people who turned up for a banned protest over the veil ban which had been called by a Muslim group in Britain. One of the protestors was arrested on his arrival from Britain, a police spokesman said.

    The timing is all the more sensitive after France's ruling UMP party called a debate on the role of Islam in French society, a forum that some criticized as unfairly singling out a portion of the population as problematic.

    The guide sent out last week to police notes that the burqa ban does not apply inside private cars, but it reminds officers that such cases can be dealt with under road safety rules.
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    Post by Chris Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:36 am

    I see it as a violation of religious freedom, and don't agree with it at all.
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    Post by (Oh!) Rob Petrie Mon Apr 11, 2011 10:58 am

    I see some irony here. See if you can find it.
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    Post by Alan Smithee Mon Apr 11, 2011 11:41 am

    Rockbird wrote:I see some irony here. See if you can find it.

    The fact that Islam is intolerant to the point of violence against any other religion and they now cry that their freedom of religion is being violated?
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    Post by Shale Mon Apr 11, 2011 1:24 pm

    Chris wrote:I see it as a violation of religious freedom, and don't agree with it at all.
    There must be limits on 'religious freedom,' especially those that do human sacrifice or those that believe 'blasphemy' to be a capital offense.

    In this modern multiethnic world one has to make concessions to the fact that one cannot go about masked. There is even a law in New Orleans against wearing a mask in public (except during Mardi Gras) Imagine being able to wear your mask down the street before going into the bank (or elsewhere) and pulling your military weapons out of your Burqa.

    So I see the public safety concern as more important than a radical, backward religion having its tenets undeservedly protected. If Muslims have a problem adjusting to the Western standards of decorum, perhaps they should go to those many Middle Eastern hellholes where their religion dominates.
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    Post by Alan Smithee Mon Apr 11, 2011 9:05 pm

    So, where would you draw the line on individual religous freedom vs living within the community/culture you've made the decision to be a part of? Is Minnesota violating Muslim Somali cabdriver's religous freedom by yanking their hack license if they refuse to transport fares that are carrying alcohol or are accompanied by pets, even seeing eye dogs?
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    Post by Shale Tue Apr 12, 2011 12:03 am

    alan smithee wrote:So, where would you draw the line on individual religous freedom vs living within the community/culture you've made the decision to be a part of? Is Minnesota violating Muslim Somali cabdriver's religous freedom by yanking their hack license if they refuse to transport fares that are carrying alcohol or are accompanied by pets, even seeing eye dogs?
    Yep. It is part of the business. If they can't drive all legal fares, then get out of the taxi BUSINESS.
    It would be like a Hindu (or me) taking a job at a meat-packing plant.
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    Post by sailorlover Tue Apr 12, 2011 6:24 am

    I think it is a 50-50 thing. Yes, they should be able to practice their religion by wearing veils but when asked for ID, IMO, the veil should be remove for that instance and then put back on. I also see the arguement about being able to not wear a mask anywhere, ie: banks, stores. This is not correct. Masks should not be worn while entering these facilities. However the Muslim do where their veils in these establishments. What is the difference? It's hard to say where the line for ID and the line for religion preference is drawn.
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    Post by Rainmaker Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:15 am

    I actually think this is a good decision. If you move to France, then be willing to integrate into their culture. They will not adapt to yours.
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    Post by CeCe Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:27 am

    Shale wrote:
    alan smithee wrote:So, where would you draw the line on individual religous freedom vs living within the community/culture you've made the decision to be a part of? Is Minnesota violating Muslim Somali cabdriver's religous freedom by yanking their hack license if they refuse to transport fares that are carrying alcohol or are accompanied by pets, even seeing eye dogs?
    Yep. It is part of the business. If they can't drive all legal fares, then get out of the taxi BUSINESS.
    It would be like a Hindu (or me) taking a job at a meat-packing plant.

    co-signs A while back there was a muslim woman working at a grocery store who wanted a "pork free" checkout because she didn't want to touch it. A person who can't do the job needs to get another one.
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    Post by Marc™ Tue Apr 12, 2011 8:47 am

    Mixed feelings. On the one hand, the law steps on the freedom of religion....on the other, I've never been for people concealing their whole face in public.


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