Do you believe in ghosts?

I know we've asked the question before but since it's nearing Halloween, do you believe in ghosts, or not?

Yes.

Yea

I will when I see one.

No.

I sort of don't but I have had friends who have seen or felt some strange things, and I mean sane friends. We lived in Tombstone Arizona for a while and so there was a lot of weird stuff.

Not the white stuff...but I can believe that someone's presence or spirit can be left behind if it were strong enough. I don't put much stock in ghosts.

Nystyle709 wrote:Not the white stuff...but I can believe that someone's presence or spirit can be left behind if it were strong enough. I don't put much stock in ghosts.

My son calls that an energy, he doesn't believe in ghosts either but he has seen some.

I am not sure, I think I might, I won't rule it out.

Tony Marino wrote:I am not sure, I think I might, I won't rule it out.

I believe in spirits

I've very surprised by just how many people do. I'd be interested in seeing the nationwide statistics on this question.

captainbryce wrote:I've very surprised by just how many people do. I'd be interested in seeing the nationwide statistics on this question.

I think it only makes sense that a lot of people would. There are a lot of things that can't fall under any variation of logical explanations. Also consider the age old question if energy is in everything and everyone and energy cannot die, what happens to a person's life energy when they do croak? It has to go somewhere, but where?

Perhaps. But I'm not particularly bent on the mythology of it.

Supernova wrote:

I think it only makes sense that a lot of people would. There are a lot of things that can't fall under any variation of logical explanations. Also consider the age old question if energy is in everything and everyone and energy cannot die, what happens to a person's life energy when they do croak? It has to go somewhere, but where?

Although it makes for great storytelling, particularly if you're into fantasy or horror, the fact is ghosts simply don't exist. It amazes me how many people believe in ghosts in the form of free floating spirits or the souls of dead people trapped in the netherworld. And its clear that these ideas stem mostly from folklore, legend, novels and Hollywood movies, which all tend to sensationalize the supernatural. But in this case, the supernatural can be debunked with simple science and science always wins because unlike ghosts, science is REAL.

I think most things that people claim to be evidence of "ghosts" can easily be explained away scientifically and rationally. And the fact that there is no tangible evidence of ghosts, or of life after death in general (religious interpretations notwithstanding) seems to suggest that people are quick to fall back on superstitions whenever they encounter something that they don't understand. People dream, daydream and hallucinate all the time for various reasons. And sometimes strange things actually do happen in the dark with no explanation that can be perceived by the person who observes the strange thing in question. This generally tends to lead people to "imagine the worst" or "see what they want to see" (depending on their emotional state). But belief in ghosts is neither rational or logical, no moreso than believing in fairies or elves.

A classic argument used by "experts" who specialize in "paranormal activity" is that ghosts represent the "energy" left behind after a person dies. And since (according to science) energy can not be destroyed, it is perfectly plausible that some life force remains after a person dies. However, this is very flawed logic. Energy itself doesn't die, but it does get expended in the form of "work". Batteries die too, but when a battery dies we don't say that its energy turns into "ghost" energy. The potential energy stored in the battery (electro/chemical energy) was simply transformed into kinetic energy used to power whatever device it was installed on. The laws regarding the conversion of energy say that energy in a closed system, instead of being "destroyed" is transformed into a different form of energy, or back to matter. Potential energy gets transformed into kinetic energy, kinetic energy is expended and gets transformed into matter, matter eventually decays in a chemical reaction, thus turning it into a different form of energy, and the cycle goes on.

But when you "die" it means you are brain dead. The "energy" in your brain ceases to power the neurons and electrical impulses responsible for the regulation of your body's systems, as well as those responsible for thought, consciousness and memory. Yes, the energy in your closed system is still there but it has been transformed into a chemical reaction of decaying matter, not into a ghost. The "energy conversion" process in your closed system continues to go on, but your mind does not because it's dead (like a battery). It no longer functions to produce thought or consciousness. And if your "soul" or "spirit" or whatever you want to call it is supposed to be a representation of your mind, emotions, thought and will, then that is also destroyed when you become brain dead, because there is nothing to produce that type of consciousness anymore. It's just plain science! Ghosts don't exist because according to the laws of science, they CAN'T exist. Any type of energy capable of affecting our environment can be detected by instruments. If ghosts are made entirely of "energy", then how come we can't detect their energy using infrared sensors, Geiger counters, or sonar? We have instruments that can detect the existence of black holes on the other side of the universe, black holes which absorb light and most other forms of radiation, yet we can still detect them. But we can't detect a ghost that is allegedly in the same room with us? In what dimension do these ghosts occupy? How can they maintain their consciousness without a vessel with which to contain it? Where does their energy come from and how do they use it to perform tasks? Do they eat food? Photosynthesis? How do they move from place to place, or communicate with people, or interact with the physical world? These ideas cannot be reconciled with the laws of physics and are not consistent with ANY known scientific principles. Therefore it is irrational to accept them as reality!

The idea of "ghosts" haunting houses stems back to superstitions where people just assumed that strange things (which seemed explainable to them at the time) were the result of evil spirits or dead people come back from the grave. This was particularly easy if they could create some "rational" explanation for the haunting, like someone being murdered in that house years ago, etc. But that's not science, it's just superstition based on a coincidence! People tend to create supernatural explanations for things that they themselves cannot understand and then perpetuate those myths down from generation to generation, even when they are otherwise explainable by actual science.

Science is not always so reliable either. How many years did they tell us about the triceratops dinosaur and NOW they say there never was such a thing? So that backtracks their 'fact' that they told us about by how many decades? Or when claims were made that Joan of Arc's fingers had been found, when she was cremated and her ashes thrown away 600 years ago, or when the claim came about that Jesus Christ's remains were found? Sometimes science and the people who work in and represent it can be as unbelievable as the people on the other side of the spectrum getting ridiculed on a daily basis, if not more so.

There are some things in the world that can not be explained logically or rationally, granted this is all assuming that the things people report ARE true, but if they are or aren't, there usually has to be somebody somewhere who can verify it, and sometimes it's a lot more to go on than just strange noises or shadows. In one of Leslie Rule's books she talks about a couple who were haunted by what seemed to be the ghost of a 12 year old girl who would leave them presents, including a dime with the date 1991 on it, in 1990. The dime was examined and found to be a genuine, legal tender dime. Now if that is true then somebody somewhere knows it and could eventually be found out, and if it IS true, where did a 1991 dime come from in the year before they were made?

For me personally, I say there are ghosts and if there are, then for some reason they love our house, they come to it every year, usually in the winter, though they don't do anything as grand scale as that. But among all of us we have never been able to come up with any logical reason why things suddenly fall on the floor or table that were nowhere in the room a minute ago. I cannot figure out why some of my books have disappeared off the shelf, out of the room, etc., when put in places that they NEVER leave and nobody else in the house touches them, one of which has been missing for 2 years and every possible place searched for it, all to turn up nothing. We get all those little things happening here all the time, and only a crazy person could see any logic in any of them.

Supernova wrote:Science is not always so reliable either. How many years did they tell us about the triceratops dinosaur and NOW they say there never was such a thing? So that backtracks their 'fact' that they told us about by how many decades? Or when claims were made that Joan of Arc's fingers had been found, when she was cremated and her ashes thrown away 600 years ago, or when the claim came about that Jesus Christ's remains were found? Sometimes science and the people who work in and represent it can be as unbelievable as the people on the other side of the spectrum getting ridiculed on a daily basis, if not more so.

Well, for one thing, you are talking about archaeological discoveries that were all based on incomplete information (gaps in evidence) to begin with. Nobody is claiming that the triceratops never existed, only that they may have mistaken it for a torosaurus in a different stage of development. The bones are still there, it's just a question of what the bones represent. Science does the best it can to explain available evidence to the best of our ability (given the facts in hand). Sometimes, conclusions have to be updated to reflect NEW scientific data. That doesn't mean the "science" itself is discredited, it simply means it was misinterpreted due to lack of previous information. But ultimately, any claim declared a scientific fact is based on EVIDENCE. Not only is there no scientific rationale for the existence of ghosts, there is also no scientific evidence of ghosts either! Not every scientific theory or principle ends up being true. But when and if they are ever disproven, it is SCIENCE that reveals such truths. It's okay to believe in something based on available evidence when that something is scientifically plausible, even if that belief turns out to be false later on, because that is part of the scientific process. But to believe in something that is scientifically implausible in the absence of any evidence is not rational.

Supernova wrote:There are some things in the world that can not be explained logically or rationally, granted this is all assuming that the things people report ARE true, but if they are or aren't, there usually has to be somebody somewhere who can verify it, and sometimes it's a lot more to go on than just strange noises or shadows.

Can you give an example of this (beyond what would be considered "supernatural")?

Supernova wrote:In one of Leslie Rule's books she talks about a couple who were haunted by what seemed to be the ghost of a 12 year old girl who would leave them presents, including a dime with the date 1991 on it, in 1990. The dime was examined and found to be a genuine, legal tender dime. Now if that is true then somebody somewhere knows it and could eventually be found out, and if it IS true, where did a 1991 dime come from in the year before they were made?

Yeah, but that's a big IF. The point I would make here is that IT'S NOT TRUE because that's simply not possible. And when things are not possible, then they didn't happen: ergo, the story is made-up! Unless there is PROOF that can be scientifically verified by someone/ANYONE, then there is no reason to accept this as anything other than a hoax.

Supernova wrote:For me personally, I say there are ghosts and if there are, then for some reason they love our house, they come to it every year, usually in the winter, though they don't do anything as grand scale as that. But among all of us we have never been able to come up with any logical reason why things suddenly fall on the floor or table that were nowhere in the room a minute ago. I cannot figure out why some of my books have disappeared off the shelf, out of the room, etc., when put in places that they NEVER leave and nobody else in the house touches them, one of which has been missing for 2 years and every possible place searched for it, all to turn up nothing. We get all those little things happening here all the time, and only a crazy person could see any logic in any of them.

I'm curious, what do you think these ghosts want, and where do they go when they aren't at your house?