Texas Welfare Office Shooting: Mom Denied Food Stamps For Months, Shoots Own Kids

Texas Welfare Office Shooting: Mom Denied Food Stamps For Months, Shoots Own Kids
PAUL J. WEBER 12/ 6/11 07:10 PM ET

A Texas woman who spent months unable to qualify for food stamps walked into a welfare office and shot her two children before killing herself.

SAN ANTONIO — A Texas woman who for months was unable to qualify for food stamps pulled a gun in a state welfare office and staged a seven-hour standoff with police that ended with her shooting her two children before killing herself, officials said Tuesday.

The children, a 10-year-old boy and a 12-year-old girl, remained in critical condition Tuesday. The shooting took place at a Texas Department of Health and Human Services building in Laredo, where police said about 25 people were inside at the time.

Authorities identified the mother as Rachelle Grimmer, 38, and children Ramie and Timothy. Laredo police investigator Joe Baeza said Grimmer had recently moved to the border city from Zanesville, Ohio, about 30 miles east of Columbus.

Grimmer first applied for food stamps in July but was denied because she didn't turn in enough information, Texas Department of Health and Human Services spokeswoman Stephanie Goodman said.

Goodman didn't know what Grimmer specifically failed to provide. In addition to completing an 18-page application, families seeking state benefits also must provide documents proving their information, such as proof of employment and residency.

"We were still waiting, and if we had that, I don't know if she would still qualify or not," Goodman said.

Goodman said Grimmer's last contact with the agency appeared to be a phone call in mid-November. When the family entered the Laredo office on Monday shortly before 5 p.m., Goodman said Grimmer asked to speak to a new caseworker, and not the one whom she worked with previously.

Shortly thereafter, Goodman said, Grimmer was taken to a private room to discuss her case. She said it was there the mother revealed a gun and the standoff began.

Police negotiators stayed on the phone with Grimmer throughout the evening, but she kept hanging up, Baeza said. She allegedly told negotiators about a litany of complaints against state and federal government agencies.

Despite those complaints, Baeza said it wasn't clear what specifically triggered the standoff.

"This wasn't like a knee-jerk reaction," said Baeza, adding that Grimmer felt she was owed restitution of some sort.

Grimmer let a supervisor go unharmed around 7:45, but stayed inside the office with her children. After hanging up the phone around 11:45, police heard three shots, and a SWAT team entered the building. Inside, they found Grimmer's body and her two wounded children.

The children were "very critical" and unconscious when taken from the scene, Baeza said.

Multiple family members in Ohio and Missouri did not immediately return phone messages Tuesday. The Ohio Department of Job and Family Services said the agency had no information on Grimmer.

A YouTube channel the family appeared to have created in 2009 includes a profile that reads, "We are Shell, Ramie and Tim. Mom, daughter 10 and son 8. We like turtles, horses, and being outside. The kids have two turtles, an alligator snapper and a red eared slider. We work on naturalizing them and try to give them the most natural setting possible."

There are no videos uploaded. Tagged as favorites are an eclectic mix of nearly two dozen videos, ranging from a solar panel installation to a live clip of the band of AC/DC. The "Hometown" category reads: "We don't have one."

Goodman credited an office supervisor, a 24-year veteran of the agency, for ensuring the release of the other employees.

"He had told her he would try to help her, and that if she would let everyone else leave, he would talk to her," Goodman said.

Goodman didn't know whether Grimmer had a job, or whether her children were covered under Medicaid or the state children's health insurance program. The family had no history with the Texas Department of Child Protective Services.

The family's move from Ohio may have complicated Grimmer's application if the family had no Texas records the agency could check electronically, Goodman said. Grimmer also would have been denied benefits if she was receiving welfare assistance.

Grimmer also appeared to fall out of touch during her pursuit of food stamps. The mother originally applied July 7, but Goodman said Grimmer missed her first interview and didn't call back and reschedule for a few weeks. Her case was closed Aug. 8 for lack of a full application, Goodman said.

How much food stamp money a family receives depends on their income level. The average family on food stamps in Texas receives $294 a month.

Three months later, Grimmer called the agency's ombudsman Nov. 16 and requested a review of how her rejected case was handled. Goodman said the agency found that caseworkers acted appropriately after looking over Grimmer's file, and a supervisor called Grimmer's cell phone last Thursday to tell her the outcome. No one answered and the phone's voicemail box was full, Goodman said.

"The indications she had she was dealing with a lot of issues," Goodman said.

State welfare offices have come under scrutiny in the past for being overburdened, but Goodman said the agency has made significant strides in the past three years. She said wait times are shorter, and that Grimmer was scheduled for her initial interview just one day after applying. Grimmer didn't make the appointment, she said.

Goodman said it's not unusual for caseworkers to confront angry or confused benefit-seekers, but that it's very rare for a situation to escalate to violence.

Jason B. wrote:An example of how society can fail people.

Girl posts ‘may die 2day’ before mother kills her
By msnbc.com staff and The Associated Press

SAN ANTONIO – Hours before her mother shot her, Ramie Marie Grimmer, 12, posted a chilling Facebook update: “May die 2day.”

Ramie wrote the words Monday night after her mother had taken her and her 10-year-old brother, Timothy Grimmer, hostage along with a human services worker at a state office in Laredo, Texas, police said Wednesday. The standoff ended late Monday with Rachelle Grimmer shooting Ramie and Timothy once each in the head and then killing herself, police said.

Ramie died Wednesday in a San Antonio hospital. Her brother Timothy is in critical condition.

The seven-hour ordeal began when Rachelle Grimmer visited the state welfare agency in Laredo with her children, angry because the family had been denied food stamps.

When the family entered the office, shortly before 5 p.m., Grimmer asked to speak to a new caseworker, not one with whom she worked previously, Texas Department of Health and Human Services spokeswoman Stephanie Goodman told The Associated Press.

Shortly thereafter, Goodman said, Grimmer was taken to a private room to discuss her case. She said it was there that the mother revealed a gun and the standoff began.

Police negotiators stayed on the phone with Grimmer throughout the evening, but she kept hanging up, Laredo police investigator Joe Baeza said. She allegedly told negotiators about a litany of complaints against state and federal government agencies.

Grimmer let a supervisor go unharmed around 7:45 p.m., but stayed inside the office with her children. Hostage negotiators stayed on the phone with Grimmer, reported the AP.

Five minutes later, 12-year-old Ramie changed the “employer” section of her Facebook account to “may die 2day.”

Nearly three hours later, at 10:34 p.m., Ramie posted “im bored,” and then 18 minutes later, “ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhahhhhhhhh”.

Grandmother responds on Facebook
Ramie’s final post, at 11:28 p.m., read “tear gas seriasly” [sic], an apparent reference to the SWAT team that had surrounded the building. In response, a woman on Facebook who identifies herself as Ramie and Timothy’s grandmother wrote back “I’m here for you guys. no reason to be afraid”.

But after negotiators hung up the phone with Grimmer around 11:45 p.m., police heard three shots, and entered the building. Inside, they found Grimmer's body and her two wounded children.

The children’s other grandmother told The AP her former daughter-in-law had a history of mental problems. Mary Lee Shepherd of Montana says she and her son Dale Grimmer, the children's father, had contacted social workers at least three times. She says they worried Grimmer could harm the children.

Grimmer first applied for food stamps in July but was denied because she didn't turn in enough information, Goodman said.

Goodman said Grimmer's last contact with the agency appeared to be a phone call in mid-November.

It wasn't clear what specifically triggered Monday’s deadly standoff.

"This wasn't like a knee-jerk reaction," said Baeza, adding that Grimmer felt she was owed restitution of some sort.


http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2011/12/08/9299274-girl-posts-may-die-2day-before-mother-kills-her

Nystyle709 wrote:

Yep. Shoulda gave up them food stamps and stop making her go through hurdles. Nobody applies for food stamps for fun. In any case, that's terrible. She obviously had issues besides not getting those food stamps.

CeCe wrote: ... I think they want people to just give up. The Social Security people are just as bad. The hoops are ridiculous.

2nd child shot by mom in Texas welfare office dies
By CHRISTOPHER SHERMAN and MATT VOLZ | AP – 8 hrs ago



McALLEN, Texas (AP) — A 10-year-old son of a woman who shot her two children and then killed herself during a police standoff at a Texas welfare office died on Thursday, a day after his sister succumbed to her wounds.

Timothy Grimmer died Thursday evening at a San Antonio hospital after he was removed from life support, Laredo police investigator Joe Baeza said. His sister Ramie, 12, who authorities say was also shot by mother Rachelle Grimmer, died Wednesday night at the same hospital.

Their father, Dale Grimmer, spent time at his son's bedside Thursday before consulting with doctors and deciding to pull Timothy off of life support, said Mary Lee Shepherd, the children's grandmother.

"He spent hours with Ramie and finally had to let her go," Shepherd said. "He's just concentrating on saying goodbye to his children."

Their mother, 38-year-old Rachelle Grimmer, shot the children Monday and then killed herself, ending a seven-hour standoff at the Texas Department of Health and Human Services office in Laredo. Authorities say she had asked to speak to a caseworker about why her food stamps application had been rejected and pulled a gun after being taken to a private room to speak.

Police say Grimmer let the roughly two dozen people in the building besides her children leave unharmed. During the standoff, she rattled off a litany of complaints about government, Baeza said.

The family had been living in a rundown trailer park, and Rachelle Grimmer had been seeking food stamps since July, shortly after they moved to Texas from Ohio.

The state Health and Human Services Commission released a timeline on Thursday of its contact with Rachelle Grimmer dating back to July 7, when Grimmer submitted an application for benefits.

At that point Grimmer was told she would not qualify for "emergency benefits," in which documentation requirements are postponed, because she said she received child support that exceeded her expenses for rent and utilities.

A caseworker interviewed Rachelle Grimmer July 22 to see if she was eligible for benefits. She was told then that she must provide documentation of her income, in this case child support.

"We closed the case on Aug. 8 because we hadn't received proof of her income," agency spokeswoman Stephanie Goodman said in an email. "If we had that, it's quite likely she would have been eligible for benefits."

On Nov. 16, Rachelle Grimmer called the agency's ombudsman to ask that someone look into her case. On Dec. 1, an agency supervisor called Grimmer, but got no answer and the voice mailbox was full.

Dale and Rachelle Grimmer divorced six or seven years ago, Shepherd said. Dale Grimmer flew to San Antonio Wednesday with his brother and father. She described him as shocked and devastated.

Shepherd said her former daughter-in-law had a history of mental illness and Dale Grimmer tried three times to have the children removed from her custody while they were living in Anaconda, Mont., and Ohio with no results.

"Many, many times he tried to tell people what was happening and nobody would listen," Shepherd said.

The Montana Department of Public Health and Human Services could not immediately verify her claims on Thursday.

Texas Department of Family and Protective Services reported finding two cases Wednesday involving Grimmer and her children.

In the first case, reported Sept. 15, 2010, the department received a possible neglect report after Rachelle Grimmer and her two children were found living in a tent on a South Texas beach. Investigators found no evidence of neglect and closed the case, spokesman Patrick Crimmins said.

In a report made last June, Corpus Christi police said Rachelle Grimmer had come to police headquarters with her two children and reported that she had been a domestic violence victim. Caseworkers checked on her and the children, determined the children were not at risk and took no further action, Crimmins said.

It appears Rachelle Grimmer and the children were in Ohio until at least some point in 2009.

Rachelle Grimmer was homeschooling them, but keeping the Crooksville Exempted Village School District apprised of the curriculum she was using through the 2008-2009 school year, said Vicky Nelson, administrative assistant to the district superintendent.

"There were no problems," Nelson said. The district sent a renewal application to Rachelle Grimmer for the next year, but received no response and was told the family had moved.



http://news.yahoo.com/2nd-child-shot-mom-texas-welfare-office-dies-033254062.html

FireIce918 wrote:This is really fucking sad. And it pisses me off.

Having dealt with gov't agencies myself (and working for the feds, go figure), I'm truly disgusted with the way they operate, because most of the time it's NOT for the good of the people. I'm convinced that people behind the scenes at my job are apes, and most of the people on the front line are too frustrated to make sense of it. If you ask me, the applicant's success depends on who they have helping them--and many employees don't care about helping, since they're already pissed off.

For instance, many of us who were temporarily laid off this summer from my job lost some unemployment benefits because they changed the rules and didn't bother to put it in writing, which caused us to not even be able to access the system--which they didn't fix for weeks. As much as we were in that hot, stanking office, herded in the warehouse like cattle with some melting crayons, we were given a standard response that didn't even address what we were saying.

Don't think it'll be easier to get anything if you have a child to provide for, either. When I applied for food stamps for my ex and I, we got roughly $100--I knew a lady with a 5 year old who couldn't even get half of that. And my cousin was actually arrested for spazzing in the lobby of the housing development because her application had been on hold for THREE YEARS--her child was almost four.

And don't get me started on the hoops you have to jump just to get benefits from the VA. Good Lord. I actually sat in some counseling sessions with my ex for his PTSD (I got tired of him looking everywhere for bombs and tackling me in his sleep) and the therapist tried SO hard to convince him that going to war had NOTHING to do with his nightmares OR daymares. Of course he couldn't convince him that Iraq didn't fuck his head up, but that didn't stop the VA from denying benefits.

Crazy Stories

That lady was certainly crazy. But damn....they could have just tossed her a damn EBT card during the first hour and arrested her ass the 2nd.

Shepherd said her former daughter-in-law had a history of mental illness and Dale Grimmer tried three times to have the children removed from her custody while they were living in Anaconda, Mont., and Ohio with no results.

"Many, many times he tried to tell people what was happening and nobody would listen," Shepherd said.

The Montana Department of Public Health and Human Services could not immediately verify her claims on Thursday.

Texas Department of Family and Protective Services reported finding two cases Wednesday involving Grimmer and her children.

In the first case, reported Sept. 15, 2010, the department received a possible neglect report after Rachelle Grimmer and her two children were found living in a tent on a South Texas beach. Investigators found no evidence of neglect and closed the case, spokesman Patrick Crimmins said.

In a report made last June, Corpus Christi police said Rachelle Grimmer had come to police headquarters with her two children and reported that she had been a domestic violence victim. Caseworkers checked on her and the children, determined the children were not at risk and took no further action, Crimmins said.

It appears Rachelle Grimmer and the children were in Ohio until at least some point in 2009.

Rachelle Grimmer was homeschooling them, but keeping the Crooksville Exempted Village School District apprised of the curriculum she was using through the 2008-2009 school year, said Vicky Nelson, administrative assistant to the district superintendent.

"There were no problems," Nelson said. The district sent a renewal application to Rachelle Grimmer for the next year, but received no response and was told the family had moved.

Forgiveness Man wrote:The system IS a failure and has been for a long time. It's doomed to let you down. Yet it seems like people want to give this failed system MORE control over our lives instead of trying to get away from it as much as possible. Our society isn't a "if you don't have it, too damn bad for you" society. It's a "I don't have it. You do. Give it to me, or else" society. It's a society of self-entitlement. THAT is the society that breeds nutjobs like this woman. Such a mentality makes an inefficient system almost completely useless. And yes, there is some blame to go around to those who ignored the obvious signs of this woman's mental illness. She should've been locked up long ago and her kids given to the husband, but more proof that government is just an efficiently run piece of junk anymore. You don't get free handouts from the government so you blow your kids away? Yeah, THAT is the kind of society we've become. And to make it better, we'll try to use the fact that you didn't get a free handout to try and dilute the blame you deserve for your actions. Oh yes, that's gonna discourage future nuts.

People are responsible for their own actions. The government's failure is not that they didn't give her a free handout. It's that they gave her a free pass on her obvious psychosis for way too long. She shouldn't have had custody of those kids. I'll blame the government for that. That's the only legitimate blame to go around here. That she didn't get her stamps isn't relevant in the slightest.

Nystyle709 wrote:

Shut the fuck up.