Abortion. I used to be pro-choice

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

It's not just your body anymore.

It's not yours. It's not the "clump of cells" either. The shit won't grow if I decide not to nourish it so 'it' doesn't have a say in what I do either.

Besides, the government tells people what to do with their bodies all the time but so-called Choicers only make a stink when abortion is the issue on the table.

Such as?

(And even then, nobody seems to care if a girl is forced into an abortion. Tell her she can't have one and you're evil but force her into one against her will(yes it happens) and it's for her own good)

WHO IN THE FUCK FORCES A GROWN WOMAN TO GET AN ABORTION? You only have an argument when it's a underage girl who is still in the custody of her parents. And then that's a whole separate issue. We're not talking about that, we're talking about whether is should be illegal or not. Nobody is forced into abortion. You're reaching in the stratosphere with that one.

You might not wanna find me.

I want you to take care of my baby. Since you don't want me to kill it and I don't want to have it, then I want you to take care of it. What's the problem?

And a personal insult?

Where did I insult you?

I should thrilled you'd trust me with your kid.

You should be. You seem like such a kind and loving soul, I'm sure my kid will grow up in such an environment. That will be ideal.

Of course..... I'll leave it at that.

Another playmate? lol I can't find an appropriate smiley.

Nystyle709 wrote:

Is he the only child? If he is....I'm SURE he would love a little brother or sister. Why can't you raise my kid and yours together?

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

Somebody being dependent for sustenance doesn't make them less of a human. Babies won't live without being fed either so I guess infanticide is okay.

Yeah, it is.

Certain drugs, with recent bills there will be limits on certain surgeries. I don't think we can choose to donate necessary organs before we're dead.

. So you're saying that we won't be able to choose to donate a kidney, bone marrow or blood before we're dead? That's what the government is going to make us do soon? Interesting.

Who in the bleep forces a grown woman to get an abortion? A controlling person! Yes it does happen, all the time. Not to mention many women are not given accurate info about abortion from the clinic, hence they don't make an informed choice. So yes, it does happen, and it isn't reaching into the stratosphere. It's just the dark side folks pretend not to see.

It may happen, but not ALL the time. You can't banned it because of that. Every law that was made or passed that is supposed to be good and benefit people as a whole in the long run has and is going to have adverse effects. Welfare initially was a great thing that FDR enacted, but then you have people who abuse the system. Then you have people who actually don't abuse the system and really use welfare only as a means to do better in life. There is always going to be a different situation. Nothing is perfect. Do you even know why Roe vs. Wade was established in the first place? Banning abortion isn't going to promote abstinence, it's not going to deter people from sex and it's not going to prevent unwanted children. You have 'unwanted' children being born right this second. Ideally, you would like to believe it will but realistically, it's not happening. Step into the 21st century.

The problem isn't with me.

It's somewhere. You talking that noise about killing unwanted babies, well...why don't you step in and care of 'em? Run a foster home or adoption agency or something to that effect if it bothers you that much. You raising hell about how someone you don't even know should handle their decision to give birth when you have absolutely ZERO responsibility to that person or that situation. I hope you're one of the people who doesn't mind your tax dollars going to take care of not one, but SEVERAL children some lazy, shiftless broad decided to have because 'she believes abortion is morally wrong'. Unless you plan on becoming Mother Teresa or at the very least, a male Angelina Jolie.....fall back.

*feels touched. *writes story about it

Great! Let me read it when you're done.

Why? gee

Nystyle709 wrote:

Yeah, why? Why won't you take care of my baby?

Forgiveness_Man wrote: Aren't we ALL just clumps of cells? The idea that a baby and bacteria are the same things is ridiculous. But I guess rationalizing that it can't be a human is how one justifies doing it. That's what the Nazi's did with Jews. It's what bigots did to blacks. Now it's what we do to unborn babies who aren't wanted. Of course it's a baby. Bacteria you wash off your hands is not a human being. A baby in the womb is, and it is by every valid definition. It's just the hard facts of how it is. We can call it a clump of cells of that makes us feel better. It's always easier to kill somebody when you've reasoned that they either deserve it or just don't deserve to live anymore.

So when is the magic moment when it goes from "clump of cells" to baby? I've always wondered that, and I always get different answers. There must be a magic moment afterall.

And I don't support the idea of killing children because they are unwanted. Once you create them, they are there. I suppose we could apply that logic to born people too, killing the ones society doesn't want. Oh wait, we've done that in history already. Nevermind then.

Supernova wrote:I'm inclined to agree. A baby doesn't magically become a baby from a clump of cells when it goes down the birth canal. If you cut open the stomach of a woman who is 7 months pregnant, you are going to find a BODY in there, not a 'clump of cells'. AND, I've always said if the baby is far enough along that if it HAS to survive outside of the womb, it CAN, how can that not qualify as a person? Oh sure, some people say 'well depending on how far along they are, they'd have to be kept on machines to stay alive'. Only temporarily, then they can go home after a while. But does that mean if a person has to be on oxygen 24/7, it's okay to kill them since they can't survive without machines?

Supernova wrote:Or alive either...there was a story of a baby that lived for TWO DAYS after an abortion, then died. Okay, if it's not alive when it's aborted, how does it LIVE after it's been aborted? AND, how can something that was never alive die?

Supernova wrote:And here's something else to think about. All research says the same thing, that unborn babies do have dreams...do dead people dream? No, then how does something that's not alive yet?

AND, a long time back about...17 or 18 years, there was a commercial on TV about a woman who was aborted but she survived and she was a normal looking woman, and it makes you think, how does something that's not alive, survive an abortion and go on to become a living human which can grow up?

Supernova wrote:And I don't agree with the idea that unborn babies can't feel pain either, so it wouldn't feel anything during an abortion. If there was a grown person who couldn't move and couldn't speak so made no sign of being in pain while being cut into pieces, which is how some abortions are performed, does that PROVE that they can't feel pain? No it doesn't. Or how about having a large pair of forceps on you to twist and tear you apart until your bones are broken and your spine is severed? Does that sound painless, anybody? Not to me. Or how about being given a poison that burns off your outer skin? Oh yeah that sounds VERY humane to me. Or how about the partial birth abortions where they pull the baby out and JAM SCISSORS INTO THE SKULL? Since it's all very humane, why don't they deliver death penalties on people like that?

Supernova wrote:And the real kick in the head of it all is very few of these women who go into these procedures, I'm guessing, ever had a gun to their head and were told to sleep with a guy. Oh sure, it's a part of life, it's also a part of biology, the reproductive part...vaginal sex with a fertile man is likely to = pregnancy. If you can't handle being pregnant, there are ways to go about that.

And I think back to Salt-N-Pepa's song Let's Talk About Sex, the line 'protect yourself, or don't have sex anymore', well you have that same choice when you don't want to get pregnant. Sure it may not be fair because you want to have a good time and have a good orgasm with somebody, but whoever said life was fair? It'll feel good at the time also for a diabetic to drink an ice cream shake that has 266 grams of sugar (there really is a shake with that much sugar in it if you can believe it) but there's going to be a big price to pay for them indulging in that good time..

Kral wrote:I'm 100% pro-choice. Not "pro-abortion"...pro-choice! If I became pregnant, I'd keep it most likely but no one is going to make that choice but me. I agree with the other pro-choicers here who asked "what are you [pro-lifers] going to do to help out with the baby's well being after it's born?" Are you gonna buy diapers or formula for my baby when I'm in a tight financial situation, or are you gonna instead go preach to the next pregnant woman about abortion being murder?

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

Notice I said necessary organs, necessary to us. ie hearts, etc. If I wanna give my heart to somebody, I can't just have them cut it out. You know full well I don't mean kidneys(although even now, I can give only one, what if I wanna give two?). The things the government will prohibit us from doing soon are different than that.

Umm....okay. Well, why don't you just become an organ donor, put a bullet in your forehead, then your 'necessary organs' will go to the proper people. That solves that.

The reason you ban it is cause it's wrongful killing. The fact that forcing DOES happen is just another proof of how "Pro-Choice" is an illusion.

You consume products from animals that have been killed. Do you have any outrage about that?

So are you saying that in order to be outraged that somebody else was killed cause they were unwanted, you have to be willing to take them in?

Nope. Of course I wouldn't kill my baby because I don't want it anymore. I will 'terminate' an 8 week old embryo if I feels it's the best decision for me though. You personally don't want to care for it, so what's your alternative?

So in other words, if some screwball mayor decides he wants to have the police start executing the homeless in the streets, you have no right bein outraged unless you are willing to take each and everyone in yourself? Andrea Yates, do I have a right to be mad at her for drowning her kids without being willing to invite them all in? Sorry, the logic just isn't there on that one. The senseless murder of another human being should be offensive to all, regardless of whether or not you are willing to take them all in yourself. Sorry, that logic just fails.

You'd be right if abortion was murder. It's not.

And as for where the problem REALLY lies, I'd say it's not with me. It's the fact that you don't want me raising your kid.

I did say I wanted you to raise my kid. But you know what, you're right. I don't want you raising my kid. I don't want my child growing up close minded and with views from the right wing. If I ever get pregnant and I decide not to go through it...guess what's gonna happen. Not a damn thing you can do about it either.

No way! I don't share my writing with just anybody. Plus, you really don't wanna read it.

If it has any of these silly right wing conservative notions, they yeah, I prob. wouldn't.

Another playmate eh? You're almost tempting me girl. *writes another story about this

Is it because my baby will be black that you don't want to take care of it?

Question for you: If a white supremacist town wants to evict all it's Minority residents, without compensating them for their property(under the guise of Whites being the only ones who are really humans), and also threatening to shoot dead all those who don't go willingly, would you be upset if that was allowed to go on in America, and would you be willing to let the entire minority population of said town stay in your house?

Nystyle709 wrote:

LOL, conservative dramatism. Like I said before.....you can't compare something with no sentience to an actual live, in the flesh, breathing being. Point blank. You can't slice that.

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

What if a person doesn't want a mess and just wants them to surgically remove the heart without the need for that? Especially due to the fact that putting a bullet in your head just might kill the organs too. They don't typically take the organs of somebody who is stone cold dead, just brain dead.

Again, animals are not people, and it amazes me that people actually try to compare the two. If you don't think animals aren't different than people, than I want Fido to start having to pay taxes.

So if somebody decides the best decision for them is to drown their child, I have to be willing to take it in in order to have any outrage?

But it is murder, cause the embryos are merely tiny people. Anybody with eyes can see that.

So you'll kill him instead? Well, better that the libs stop reproducing. Let them kill themselves off. Besides, I know you never seriously wanted me raising your kid anyway(but the little imaginary life of your kid and little Joey was quite funny). Besides, I love how libs accuse you of being "close-minded" when you disagree with them. lol So darn hypocritical. The people saying it's impossible that a child is alive before it's born(based on the proof "Come on, how could it be alive?") are accusing others of being close-minded. lol No chance the left wing whackos are the close-minded ones?

Maybe it's fairly a liberal novel. Not everyone who doesn't like killing unborn babies is a right wing whackjob.(Anybody with a conscious, I'd say, would be on the same boat)

Nah, I wouldn't care what race he/she is. I'd welcome diversity with open arms. I'm sure everyone else in the house would too. See, we don't discriminate against you just cause you are different, or because you are smaller or because society doesn't want you. BTW, if you are worried about prejudice, the abortion industry is where the prejudice lies. That's a whole different area of the issue right there, how abortion has become a racist thing.

Liberal ignorance of facts: Yes I can compare because an embryo is by every valid definition, a human life. It's not some bacteria with no sentience, that's just the lie people tell themselves to hide from the guilt of killing it. There's no science backing it up at all, just leftist notions that make no sense. All of the comparisons I've made are valid, but nobody can ever answer them beyond the "but it's different with abortion" cop-out, cause there is no answer to them without admitting the ridiculous notion that abortion doesn't kill a human. Of course, it would be nice to hear somebody actually answer the comparisons with a real answer, of course then their arguments might dry up a bit.

. All I'm going to do is keep repeating myself and you're going to do the same. So I'm done......for real. The last thing I will say, in which you obviously don't seem to get, is pro-choice does not mean pro-abortion. It's an OPTION. One of the foundations in the US Constitution was to separate church from state. You don't impose your morality on me and the government doesn't have the right to either. You 'think' life begins at conception, I say it doesn't. I'm 100% positive you don't remember being conceived anymore than you remember gestating in your mother's womb. You have capital punishment in which the government legally has the right to kill another human being, which you have no problem with, but you have a problem with abortion which is the "killing" (your words not mine) of a human embryo (not a being)? Killing is killing (I'm going off your argument here) whether it's an "innocent" life or a serial killer. Whether it's an animal or a bacteria. If there is the option for capital punishment, why can't there be an option for abortion? Roe vs Wade was enacted because you had so many women getting illegal abortions and dying from them. Most abortions that are done are safe and are done within the first trimester of a pregnancy. You are terminating a pregnancy, a physical state that a

wants to endure. If a woman gets an abortion, she's going to go on living so I don't understand why you're saying she's killing a life, lol . This is the definition of

And this is from Webster's dictionary. Want to dispute that, I'd suggest you take it up with the proper people. Now I'm off to go shopping. It's my birthday!!!!

Forgiveness_Man wrote:^^^^Pro-Choice DOES mean Pro-Abortion because it's NEVER USED to defend ANY OTHER CHOICE other than one to have an abortion.

Okay, well let me clarify. Just because you're pro-choice doesn't mean that you PERSONALLY are going to be the one who gets an abortion. You might not feel it's right for you either, but you aren't happy with the decision with someone telling you you can't. Feel better now? I thought that you would at least be able to comprehend that without my saying it. Guess not.

Those definitions seem to me to indicate that an unborn child is alive, not to mention the Science behind it being not alive is ridiculous. So your definition proves my point(especially the first def), thank you!

And as for your comment about a woman going on living after an abortion, it's just so darn blind to the point, it's not even funny. Serial killers go on living after killing too.

. Seems to you? You are helpless. You are even going to twist the words of the definition in the dictionary to fit you're own argument. I'm done for real. Bye!

Nystyle709 wrote:

. Seems to you? You are helpless. You are even going to twist the words of the definition in the dictionary to fit you're own argument. I'm done for real. Bye!