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Wondering how people feel about draft dodgers and if they should be allowed back in the country if they run to another to escape having to serve. If the war in Iraq had instituted a draft and your # was called, would you have dodged it? I'm against war, so I would have moved to Canada.
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TSJFan4Ever
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Draft Dodging
GrayWolf- …is Authorized.
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Forgiveness Man- …is a Chamber Royal.
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I am less severe against punishing draft dodgers simply because I've always had a strong personal opposition to the military draft.
Chris- Chamber Admin.
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Funny I remember being a freshman in high school, and my history teacher making a prediction that by the time my class graduated, the conflict Bosnia could be similar to Vietnam (draft and all.) I told my uncle, who was a drafted Vietnam vet, what my teacher said and he dismissed it as a ludicrous prediction, but said he would drive me over the bridge to Canada himself if that should ever happen.
Personally, I'm against a military draft, especially if it's for a conflict that poses no threat to US homeland security (like Iraq.) If the US is going to be hellbent on fighting another countries war for them, then do it with an enlisted military.
Personally, I'm against a military draft, especially if it's for a conflict that poses no threat to US homeland security (like Iraq.) If the US is going to be hellbent on fighting another countries war for them, then do it with an enlisted military.
CeCe- …is a Chamber DEITY.
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I strongly, vehemently & passionately oppose the draft.
Forgiveness Man- …is a Chamber Royal.
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I feel like any job, you will get the best workers possible by getting people who WANT to do it in there, instead of forcing people to do it. If they ever tried to bring it back, it'd be a disaster on all levels.
GrayWolf- …is Authorized.
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Forgiveness_Man wrote:I am less severe against punishing draft dodgers simply because I've always had a strong personal opposition to the military draft.
That's a shocker. Thought for sure you'd be ready to banish draft dodgers from domestic soil!
Last edited by GrayWolf on Fri Nov 26, 2010 4:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
Supernova- The Book Chamber
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Here's my two cents on it: We have about a million and a half people in the military right now by CHOICE, WHY would we need a draft to get more people in it against their will? Now, I can understand in previous times when the population was smaller, they probably couldn't just count on the people who WANTED to make the army their life, but that doesn't make it right, and today it's not necessary. And if the draft were reinstated today, would women be drafted to? Then where would that leave the children of these soldiers? I'm against it, but you know, somebody somewhere must have at one time been planning to bring it back because my brother who was born LONG after Vietnam, has a draft card of his own.
Alan Smithee- ...is a 20G Chamber DIETY.
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Is this question confined to refusing to serve your country in unpopular wars only? What if your country was in actual peril? What if we faced a situation like South Korea has for the last 60 years? Suppose the only effective way to maintain our armed forces to a level adequate to defend our borders was through a draft. Should people who flee under those circumstances be allowed back in?
Marc™- …is a Chamber DEITY.
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I was always safe because: a)I'm sort of an only child and b) I'm asthmatic.
But even if I had six brothers and sisters, and perfect bronchial tubes...if my draft number came up, I'd grab Tony Marino, a bottle of Vaseline and a video camera. If that didn't work, it's off to Canada I go.
Make due with your volunteer army, Uncle Sam.
But even if I had six brothers and sisters, and perfect bronchial tubes...if my draft number came up, I'd grab Tony Marino, a bottle of Vaseline and a video camera. If that didn't work, it's off to Canada I go.
Make due with your volunteer army, Uncle Sam.
Nystyle709- ...is a 20G Chamber DIETY.
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I'm hot and cold on this subject. On one hand, I don't like the government forcing people to be in the military if they don't want to, but on the other......I would definitely like to see them make priviledge, spoiled ass rich kids risk their lives for this country the same way they make poor ones do. A lot of conservatives like to talk that shit about being all about war but will be the first ones to dodge the draft and find any excuse not to be on the front line. The average or poor person's child can go though.
Shale- ...is a Chamber Royal.
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Conscription, Draft, Selective Service - no matter what you call it, it is a Slave Army. I grew up with the draft and all its inequities. I beat it by joining the Air Force three days after high school.
BTW, all you guys who are over 18 should have a draft card. Did you know that? Just because they aren't calling you up, you are supposed to be in the system. I don't know if my grandsons have registered but I told them as teens I would move to Canada if they brought it back and try to set them up a household there. (Now they are old enuf to go without me - I can stay on Miami Beach)
If they reintroduce the draft I will be one not only protesting the concept of a slave army but will be insisting that young women be put thru the same ordeal as young men. The concept of gender equality wasn't as established in the '70s when the draft was ended but it is now and there will likely be a court challenge on the constitutionality of only drafting men.
BTW, all you guys who are over 18 should have a draft card. Did you know that? Just because they aren't calling you up, you are supposed to be in the system. I don't know if my grandsons have registered but I told them as teens I would move to Canada if they brought it back and try to set them up a household there. (Now they are old enuf to go without me - I can stay on Miami Beach)
If they reintroduce the draft I will be one not only protesting the concept of a slave army but will be insisting that young women be put thru the same ordeal as young men. The concept of gender equality wasn't as established in the '70s when the draft was ended but it is now and there will likely be a court challenge on the constitutionality of only drafting men.
Forgiveness Man- …is a Chamber Royal.
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GrayWolf wrote:
That's a shocker. Thought for sure you'd be ready to banish draft dodgers from domestic soil!
That's why you should never stereotype!
Of course, I fail to see why you'd be shocked. Nothing about me would ever indicate that I support government forcing people into armed service. Me being so against big government, it should come as no surprise that I am vehemently against the draft.
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GrayWolf wrote:Wondering how people feel about draft dodgers and if they should be allowed back in the country if they run to another to escape having to serve. If the war in Iraq had instituted a draft and your # was called, would you have dodged it? I'm against war, so I would have moved to Canada.
I think that if a person lives in a country and enjoys the spoils of that country.........and then runs because they are asked to pay for what they have gotten for free (simply because they were born in that country) They should remain were they are.
..if they wish to return, then they should have to suffer the consequences of what their choice to lives brings them.
You don't have to serve....you can either run, or do your time in jail. But its a choice that a person has to make.
Supernova- The Book Chamber
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Ghost1P wrote:
I think that if a person lives in a country and enjoys the spoils of that country.........and then runs because they are asked to pay for what they have gotten for free (simply because they were born in that country) They should remain were they are.
Well since we're all into 'equality' today that would mean both men AND women would be drafted, doesn't it? And where would that leave the children then? Orphans to the war just because mommy AND daddy are or rather WERE living in America?
DarkOblivion- …is a Newbie.
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Wasn't it the law at one point that every 18 year old male had to be put on some kind of army registry just in case a war-draft situation came about? I didn't do it when I was 18.
CeCe- …is a Chamber DEITY.
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Unless they've changed it, every male (grossly unfair, btw) is supposed to register when turning 18.
Wadsworth- …is Significant.
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I didn't register either (*least I don't remember doing it) 
but I would think that it would be something automatic with computers & SSN #'s these days. I got a drivers license so the gov know how old I am.
Anyways tho fuck a draft. If some bullshit war broke out (probably 1 that aint even bout America being in danger) and they instated a draft and my lottery came up, you can bet I'ma flee. How is this a "free" country if you making dudes do this shit?
but I would think that it would be something automatic with computers & SSN #'s these days. I got a drivers license so the gov know how old I am.Anyways tho fuck a draft. If some bullshit war broke out (probably 1 that aint even bout America being in danger) and they instated a draft and my lottery came up, you can bet I'ma flee. How is this a "free" country if you making dudes do this shit?
CeCe- …is a Chamber DEITY.
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I bet the percentage who do not is very high. If they made any realistic effort to reinstate the draft, the opposition to it would be incredible.
Impact- …is a Power Member.
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I'm against the whole idea of a draft, being appalled at someone who'd rather dodge non-volunteered combat is something straight out of an episode of All In the Family. Not everyone is a soldier, or has what it takes to be one. Recruit a bunch of spiritually unwilling civilians, who won't receive proper training before being thrown out into artillery fire, and what do you have? A weak army. An army is only as good as its weakest soldier.
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I can't speak to the past, but today the US has the strongest and most powerful military and weapons of mass destruction on the planet. Plus we have military allies and other countries who owe us favors. There is no need at all for there to ever be another draft quite frankly.
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We dont have the draft in Canada and never have. All of our soldiers have volunteered for service. I didn't realize this, though, until we had a veteran speaking at our Remembrance Day ceremony in school. He asked everyone who has had a family member serve in any war to stand up and almost every single person in the auditorium stood up. When we were settled agian, he told us that Canada had never had a draft and that all of our soldiers had gone over willingly. I don't think we'll ever have a draft here in Canada.
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Dark Oblivion wrote:Wasn't it the law at one point that every 18 year old male had to be put on some kind of army registry just in case a war-draft situation came about? I didn't do it when I was 18.
That's STILL the law. (Thank you Carter) It's called Selective Service. You probably did it without even realizing, they don't let you do much in life without it. It's a simple process.
What would happen if we drafted people into the Firefighter or Police Officer profession? Both jobs are necessary to public safety. The idea of a draft just ignores the fact that you get the best quality army when the people want to be there rather than being forced against their will.
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The original question was should people who flee the country to avoid military service be allowed back in. With the possible exception of Ghost1P, it sounds like all of your answers are in the context of an “unpopular” or “unnecessary” war. That’s fine. I have more sympathy to someone who went to Canada or Sweden to avoid “serving their country” (read, the military-industrial complex) during Viet Nam too. But all of you have ignored my question that what if it wasn’t an unpopular or unnecessary war? What if it was for the actual defense of the country and whatever personal freedoms you now have, including giving your opinions on line like this?
All I’ve heard are things like (paraphrased):
I beat the draft by joining the Air Force. Sounds like getting locked up in the county jail to hide from the police. This was about 1962? Good thing Khrushchev blinked.
Oh, all the orphans there’ll be because they drafted Mommy and Daddy. Please. They have these things called deferments.
The draftees are unwilling and won’t receive proper training. They’ll get the same training as the people who enlisted get. Many men were drafted during WWII who would have rather stayed home, but they went. And yeah, I guess things didn’t work out too well. For the Germans and Japanese.
So I’ll ask one more time. Should anyone who won’t put their ass on the line if it ever became necessary to defend their freedom be entitled to have those freedoms?
All I’ve heard are things like (paraphrased):
I beat the draft by joining the Air Force. Sounds like getting locked up in the county jail to hide from the police. This was about 1962? Good thing Khrushchev blinked.
Oh, all the orphans there’ll be because they drafted Mommy and Daddy. Please. They have these things called deferments.
The draftees are unwilling and won’t receive proper training. They’ll get the same training as the people who enlisted get. Many men were drafted during WWII who would have rather stayed home, but they went. And yeah, I guess things didn’t work out too well. For the Germans and Japanese.
So I’ll ask one more time. Should anyone who won’t put their ass on the line if it ever became necessary to defend their freedom be entitled to have those freedoms?
Forgiveness Man- …is a Chamber Royal.
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^^^^They may recieve the same training but the same can be said for any profession necessary to public safety. If a city has a cop shortage and high crime rate, should we draft men into law enforcement and argue that because they recieve equal training, they are somehow equally qualified? What about firefighters? Should we force men to run into burning buildings because it's necessary for public safety? Forcing sacrifice on people in the name of freedom or safety just strikes me as somewhat contradictory.
Perhaps in the past, it was different. The draft was an integral part of the culture. People were more prepared for it. If it ever returned, it would be a disaster. Not everybody is cut out for the demands of being a soldier. It is a calling. I am against forcing people into dangerous jobs against their will. America does enjoy freedoms, but should those freedoms be withdrawn when it's convenient? And today, we'd draft women too?
I just cannot see ANY need for a military draft. Not everyone is cut out for armed combat. I don't believe we should force anybody into it, especially in today's world.
Now, I can't say I support actual draft dodging. It's a tough issue for me and since it's an issue totally in the past right now, it's kind of hard to really say what should've been done by those people.
Perhaps in the past, it was different. The draft was an integral part of the culture. People were more prepared for it. If it ever returned, it would be a disaster. Not everybody is cut out for the demands of being a soldier. It is a calling. I am against forcing people into dangerous jobs against their will. America does enjoy freedoms, but should those freedoms be withdrawn when it's convenient? And today, we'd draft women too?
I just cannot see ANY need for a military draft. Not everyone is cut out for armed combat. I don't believe we should force anybody into it, especially in today's world.
Now, I can't say I support actual draft dodging. It's a tough issue for me and since it's an issue totally in the past right now, it's kind of hard to really say what should've been done by those people.
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alan smithee wrote:The original question was should people who flee the country to avoid military service be allowed back in.
...So I’ll ask one more time. Should anyone who won’t put their ass on the line if it ever became necessary to defend their freedom be entitled to have those freedom
It is a loaded question and someone else made a point about defending our homeland. There has been no draft callup since the Vietnam war, which was an UNNECESSARY, ill conceived war and had nothing to do with defending our freedom or homeland. There were no Viet Cong in Central Park.
So, yes, for all those who went to Sweden and Canada to avoid being cannon fodder for the military/industrial complex (Eisenhower's term, a Republican) they should have been given amnesty, allowed to return and maybe given a certificate for following their conscience instead of being some universal soldier.
alan smithee wrote:I beat the draft by joining the Air Force. Sounds like getting locked up in the county jail to hide from the police. This was about 1962? Good thing Khrushchev blinked.
BTW, I say I avoided the draft by joining the Air Force. Well that is true but I also have a family history in the Air Force and I was a young man (19) and impressionable with romantic notions about being in the armed forces in 1963. So, even if there weren't a draft I may have followed the same course. Four years later I was just counting the days to get out, the spit & polish had worn thin. Anyhow, even tho I avoided Vietnam, I did serve my country by watching the Soviets and was given a certificate of appreciation for serving during the "Cold War."
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