Chris wrote:If someone is wasting away in a hospital bed, in agonizing pain, then I think the humane thing to do is to let them die.
Forgiveness_Man wrote:And if that is ALL we did, that would be one thing. Actively ending life is different than not making excessive efforts to prolong it unnecessarily.
When you edit someone's post, it is polite not to take things out of context. Chris also said this:
Chris wrote:...I definitely support a terminally ill person, who is in the advance stages of their infirmity, being allowed an assisted medical suicide–per their request.
I know he said that. I wasn't trying to take what he said out of context, just showing something.
People who commit suicide always have reasons, almost always tied to relieving extreme pain. People keep telling me that it's not so black and white but so far, I've not been shown how it's really different in the end. We're not talking about merely not reviving somebody once their heart stops; we're talking about taking active efforts to help them commit suicide. If that is okay, how can we tell somebody else who wants to commit suicide that they can't do it? It's hypocritical and you'll never be able to argue that point without trivializing their pain by telling them that their pain isn't great enough to merit suicide.
RedBedroom wrote:I don't agree with it because I believe in God and Him having say when we go.
I don't judge people who are fine with it, but I think as soon as multiple Kavorkians are around, legally assisting suicide, we are going to have people not putting as much thought into it before hand. It is "easy" to make decisions to end it when one is in the middle of the worst pain and illness that they ever suffered. If legalized, there would be middle aged people doing it, or weak minded young people doing it, when they would have otherwise made a recovery after more time passed.
But being terminal means NO recovery. Whatsoever. A doctor wouldn't perform euthanasia on someone who is just in a coma. Or just having pain in general.
LOL @ the responses. Why do you guys even bother? Interesting (not really) though. Wonder what these people against assisted suicide would say to someone who is in pain on death row and wanted to be put out of their misery.
I don't care if anyone else thinks that choosing to end my own life is wrong even if my physical pain has become unbearable or unmanageable to me. As long as they don’t do anything to prevent me from carrying out my right to die I don’t care what their opinion is on the subject.
Nystyle709 wrote:LOL @ the responses. Why do you guys even bother? Interesting (not really) though. Wonder what these people against assisted suicide would say to someone who is in pain on death row and wanted to be put out of their misery.
That occurred to me too. Maybe the answer is for the hopelessly terminal to kill someone (like a child rapist/murder of course) and let the government give them the shot.
That occurred to me too. Maybe the answer is for the hopelessly terminal to kill someone (like a child rapist/murder of course) and let the government give them the shot.
They're bedridden and they can kill or rape somebody? Yet they need assistance to plug themselves? Lame.
To counter NyStyle's question, I'd be curious to see what those for suicide would say to the same person who is on Death Row.
Forgiveness_Man wrote:They're bedridden and they can kill or rape somebody? Yet they need assistance to plug themselves? Lame.
To counter NyStyle's question, I'd be curious to see what those for suicide would say to the same person who is on Death Row.
Not as lame as your previous criticism of Tony’s Adam & Eve joke. Especially considering you totally misunderstood what I wrote based on your reply. I didn’t say the rapist/murderer was terminal (so they’re not bedridden to be in need of assistance to rape and murder).
To counter NyStyle's question, I'd be curious to see what those for suicide would say to the same person who is on Death Row.
If the person on death row were terminally ill, in the same situation we're talking about & requested it I would have no problem. No reason to insist they suffer anything beyond the imposed sentence.
If the person on death row were terminally ill, in the same situation we're talking about & requested it I would have no problem. No reason to insist they suffer anything beyond the imposed sentence.
CeCe, I don't know if you're aware of the history behind Ny's & FM's remarks. Not important enough to go into here but you can check it out on the thread "Is capital punishment legalized murder?" It's back around page 7.
Last edited by alan smithee on Wed Dec 08, 2010 9:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
Forgiveness_Man wrote:They're bedridden and they can kill or rape somebody? Yet they need assistance to plug themselves? Lame.
Just like most of your posts. First of all, Alan was being sarcastic to make a point. Just like most other sensible things, that one flew right over your head.
To counter NyStyle's question, I'd be curious to see what those for suicide would say to the same person who is on Death Row.
If he/she was terminally ill and wanted to die, then I don't see any problem obliging them.
CeCe, I don't know if you're aware of the history behind Ny's & FM's remarks. Not important enough to go into here but you can check it out on the thread "Is capital punishment legalized murder?" It's back around page 7.
But being terminal means NO recovery. Whatsoever. A doctor wouldn't perform euthanasia on someone who is just in a coma. Or just having pain in general.
The diagnosis of "terminal" would have to be made by how many doctors? Just one? Also, there are illnesses that people suffer from that cause extreme pain, but are not technically terminal diseases. So, who is going to be the judge and jury on which patients are close enough to death to warrant assisted suicide?
Though rare, there are cases where families are told that their loved one is about to go only to have them completely turn around.
The diagnosis of "terminal" would have to be made by how many doctors? Just one? Also, there are illnesses that people suffer from that cause extreme pain, but are not technically terminal diseases. So, who is going to be the judge and jury on which patients are close enough to death to warrant assisted suicide?
Though rare, there are cases where families are told that their loved one is about to go only to have them completely turn around.
Red, regardless that it’s highly unlikely that any state legislature or Congress would ever consider granting terminally ill humans the same consideration that we give to our pets, to answer your post, if I were setting it up there would be a panel of qualified doctors to review the individual case. Is the patient terminal with no chance of recovery? Not just chronic but terminal. Is the prognosis a painful lingering death? Instead of a simple majority maybe the panel has to be unanimous that the answer is yes. After that, there would be mandatory counseling for the patient to give them a cooling off period. After that, if the person still wants to end their suffering, I say give them release. Nobody who was depressed or got dumped by their girl friend, etc. would be eligible for this help. They’d have to do it themselves the old fashioned way.
The diagnosis of "terminal" would have to be made by how many doctors? Just one?
Not necessarily. But how realistic is the possibility that only one doctor is going to determine that someone is terminal and every other doctor in the medical profession wouldn't? Take Patrick Swayze for example. You think if he went to 20 different doctors, his terminal diagnosis would've changed?
Also, there are illnesses that people suffer from that cause extreme pain, but are not technically terminal diseases.
And those aren't what we're talking about. A woman who is in labor or someone who, I dunno, broke their leg or was hurt in a serious car accident and they were in excrutiating pain and asked to be put out of their misery.....no one is going take that seriously enough to assist them in taking their life. Firstly, there are only a handful of diseases that can be considered terminal. Terminal means a disease that has progressed enough to not be curable or even treatable anymore. Cancer is definitely the one. What else? MS? Lupus? There aren't many other medical illnesses that you can have that a doctor would make a terminal diagnosis. You're lumping any disease or anything associated with pain as being terminal. A doctor isn't going to consider you terminal if you got pain associated from trauma or anything like that.
So, who is going to be the judge and jury on which patients are close enough to death to warrant assisted suicide?
The individual. We're discussing people who know they are terminally ill and are asking for euthanasia. Not a doctor determining that they should have it. Not a family member who doesn't want to see their loved one suffer determining that they should have it. The person themselves are asking for it. They're determining it. Who better than the individual to know how bad his/her pain is and what course of action he/she wants to take?
Though rare, there are cases where families are told that their loved one is about to go only to have them completely turn around.
True. But that still isn't the issue. And most of the time if it does, that doesn't even happen with terminally ill patients.
For the last 18 months, Dan Crews has been waging a battle to die, one that he is losing.
For the last 24 years -- since he was paralyzed at age 3 in a car accident -- Crews has been a quadriplegic, able to speak and eat, but not breathe on his own.
"Just imagine having your arms and legs strapped down 24 hours a day, seven days a week and not being able to do anything about it and not going anywhere," said the 27-year-old, who lives with his mother in Antioch, Ill.
"I have no education," said Crews. "No education prospects. No job prospects. I have no love prospects. All I want is to no longer live like this."
The Supreme Court ruled a decade ago that a person can refuse medical treatment -- provided they are competent. And that is the biggest hurdle for Crews.
The head psychiatrist at Froedtert Hospital in Wauwatosa, where Crews has received most of his treatment since he was airlifted from the accident, says he is depressed and that overrides his ability to make a life or death decision.
The hospital did not return calls for comment, but medical records obtained by the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel revealed that psychiatrists and mental health professionals have ruled Crews is depressed and must be treated before they will agree to such an irrevocable step.
Crews said he is not depressed -- "no more than the average person in my position."
Crews is now on antidepressants, but has refused psychiatric care. When he tried to starve himself, doctors threatened to use a feeding tube and he relented. But he hasn't changed his mind about dying.
Because his diaphragm is paralyzed, he is hooked up to a mechanical ventilator connected to his throat that breathes for him.
He can use the telephone and type on the computer with a mouth stick and has no problem eating, if family members or nurses put the food in his mouth. But Crews is physically unable to kill himself.
Lately, he spends most of the day in his dark bedroom sleeping, in between medical checks for vital signs. In the evening he watches movies and television.
His father, Gerald Crews, objects to his son's wishes. "He does not understand what I am going through," said Crews. "He thinks I'll get better."
His mother, Cheryl Crews, 60, is willing to stand by her son. "In the end, if this is what he wants, I have promised to support him," she said.
An estimated 5 to 10 percent of spinal cord injury patients contemplate suicide, six times higher than in the general population, according to the Kessler Institute in New Jersey, one of the nation's top rehabilitation centers, the one that treated the late actor Christopher Reeve, who was paralyzed in a riding accident.
Richard Dreyfuss was in a film adaptation of a Broadway play titled "Who's Life Is It Anyway" almost 30 years ago in which he plays a sculpture who becomes a quadriplegic who sues to be allowed to die.
alan smithee wrote:Richard Dreyfuss was in a film adaptation of a Broadway play titled "Who's Life Is It Anyway" almost 30 years ago in which he plays a sculpture who becomes a quadriplegic who sues to be allowed to die.
It's been a long time but I do remember that one. That title really says it all for me.
If there is someone suffering from an incurable disease and their health is rapidly failing, and their day to day physical struggle is intense, then I think they should definitely be euthanize if that's what they're asking for. I think refusing their request and making them continue to struggle is cruel actually.
Chris wrote:Here's an interesting news piece related to the topic.
What a horrible nightmare that is. And it is not academic discussion bullshit for this unfortunate young man but a daily nightmare that he is being forced to endure because of the religious dictated morality of "professionals" like the psychiatrist who use their position of authority to force him to live when he would prefer to not live in his condition. It is a shame that the family does not find an opposing shrink or remove him to another facility where they agree to remove his artificial life-support.
This is the exact reason we need to remove the interloping moralizers from the personal life or death decisions of individuals. My Living Will has all the standard provisions but specifically says no feeding tubes or mechanical resusitation when I am no longer able to breathe on my own. Luckily, I live in a diverse metropolis where you can find doctors who respect those decisions and those decisions have been in writing since 1988, all the while I have not been deemed incompetent or psycho.
Polls show that most ppl agree with the stance of this young man if put in the perspective of "what if it was you." Very few would elect to exist as a quadreplegic. I have taken care of quads in nursing homes. One seemed resigned to his fate and care and watch TV a lot. That would make me go insane. Eventually, after much care he may die of infection from a persistent decubitus (bedsore) which is a constant threat to bedbound patients or pneumonia from the poor breathing thru his stoma (hole in his neck for breathing tube). Oh, poor guy can forget about modesty or dignity. Having someone cram a suppository up your ass every couple of days then collect the shit it induces isn't high on my list of fun things to have done to me.
His life is just a matter of enduring such regular indignities. Not what I would consider high quality of life. And yet, he is forced to endure it against his will and is called crazy for wishing to end it, adding just another indignity to his existence.
His story is exactly why this subject is so important. This is repeated everyday for people who won't be allowed to die but ARE being forced to live. The person who is having to live it is the one who should be permitted to make the decision. I appreciate his father wants to cling to some kind of hope. But he isn't the one who is experiencing this kind of "life". Forcing someone into this kind of existence is cruel.
Forgiveness_Man wrote:^^^^One can say the same thing about any person contemplating suicide, especially said person.
Oh come on now, this is BS and you know it. Give it up!
There is no rationale behind your beliefs. To say that this young man existing without a life, who wants to end said existencs should be held to some standard of "any person contemplating suicide" is ludicrous.
I think you post only to antagonize rational ppl in these discussions. But, I have met enuf irrational religionists, and know there are fanatical muslims out there who are doing the most heinous acts of barbarism in the name of their religion to suspect that you actually do believe what you write. Pity.
Home
Yet they need assistance to plug themselves? 
Yet they need assistance to plug themselves? 
» NEW ADDRESS: http://conversationchamber.ipbhost.com/
» New project
» st pattys day
» White smoke signals cardinals have selected a new pope
» Red?
» Do You Look Like a Celebrity?
» Canned Foods
» English Muffins or Toast?