How much sympathy do you have for them?

She was a victim the first time she was hit. After that she was an enabler.

I don't like the idea of blaming the victim. No one should be mistreated and there are variables to every situation. If you're a housewife with 3 or 4 kids and no credit or much work history, and in the meantime your abusive husband is making 300k a year and everything (specifically the bank accounts) is in his name then that complicates matters. Sometimes it's not as simple as just walking away.

MINDFUCK wrote:

She was a victim the first time she was hit. After that she was an enabler.

This is exactly how I feel about it. The first time he hits her, it's 100% on him. The second time, she shares the blame...if only because she stayed after the first.

AtownPeep wrote:

I don't like the idea of blaming the victim. No one should be mistreated and there are variables to every situation. If you're a housewife with 3 or 4 kids and no credit or much work history, and in the meantime your abusive husband is making 300k a year and everything (specifically the bank accounts) is in his name then that complicates matters. Sometimes it's not as simple as just walking away.

Usually it IS that simple. It only becomes complicated after she's spent 5, 10, 15 years with him and brought four kids into that muck. You can't tell me that the first time he hit her, back when they were dating, that she couldn't simply walk away.

Chris wrote:

How much sympathy do you have for them?

Depends on the situation. I agree with Atown that nobody should be getting beat up in their relationship but there comes a point where the victim has to stop being the victim and find a way out. I actually have less sympathy for women with kids who stay in abusive relationships, because that's teaching them that domestic violence is either okay and because chances are that if he's beating her, then he's probably knocking their kids around too. You can be a victim w/o playing one. People who PLAY the victim get little sympathy from me.

I feel it's not really my place to judge because I have never been in that kind of situation and as a man, I would never hit a woman (unless she hit me first)...but I do have to wonder how it got so far. Fine... years of physical abuse probably takes a psychological toll, but the very first time he hit her I would imagine that she was in a better position to nip it in the bud then and there.

JADACITY wrote:

Depends on the situation. I agree with Atown that nobody should be getting beat up in their relationship but there comes a point where the victim has to stop being the victim and find a way out. I actually have less sympathy for women with kids who stay in abusive relationships, because that's teaching them that domestic violence is either okay and because chances are that if he's beating her, then he's probably knocking their kids around too. You can be a victim w/o playing one. People who PLAY the victim get little sympathy from me.

This is how I feel too. While I never stop loathing the guy for being a battering dickhead, after a very short while she needs to pull her big girl pants up and do something about the situation.

I once dated a guy who had had anger issues that inevitably led to a restraining order being placed on him by his prior GF for slapping her around. They had been living together for a year, and during that time his abuse was a recurring thing...until finally she got fed up and called the authorities on him while he was at work. Came home to the police, who took him into custody right then and there. He was ultimately put on probation and forced to complete anger management. He told me all this about a week after we started dating. He was trying to make a fresh start and, I guess, thought that this kind of full disclosure would be a good way to take away his leverage to be a batterer.

I believe in giving people one-time second chances. He seemed very sincere in his remorse and quest to move on from his past behavior. I was really startled, but appreciated and respected his candor. During the same conversation, though, I let him know that his probation continued...and that unlike his previous lover:

a) It wouldn't take me a year to call the police if his hand ever went north.
b) The relationship would be over instantly.
c) In a fight, I wouldn't be an easy win.

Honestly, I think it's what he wanted to hear. He wanted a female who would stand up for herself and let him know that under no uncertain terms would his penchant for abuse or rage issues be tolerated. Subsequently, he never touched me in anger. Ever. Oh, yeah, he still had a penchant for getting pissed off at things...but knowing what I knew about him, I stood my ground, and when he got a little too infuriated would give him that unflinching look of "Negro, count to ten..."

Moral of the story: if you don't allow a man to victimize you, he won't. Batterers are bullies, and like most bullies they generally pick on people who'll let them.

I think that for women who stay in abusive relationships, it is at times, just the place they are in and they feel they can't go another way. Immaturity, lack of education, lack of funds, all are things that make some women stay when they could leave easier than they otherwise would.

For those who have kids and are abused, sometimes, I think they are worn down to nothing and fear the time alone the abuser would have with the kids should they separate.

RedBedroom wrote:

I think that for women who stay in abusive relationships, it is at times, just the place they are in and they feel they can't go another way. Immaturity, lack of education, lack of funds, all are things that make some women stay when they could leave easier than they otherwise would.

For those who have kids and are abused, sometimes, I think they are worn down to nothing and fear the time alone the abuser would have with the kids should they separate.

Yes I think it's the feeling of hopelessness that prompts them to stay in abusive situations. Like there's no one to help or no one to turn to. Or that their battering lover will still find a way to get to them even if they do manage to leave and that from there it would only get worse. I think most of the time these fears are probably exaggerated but when you've been so beaten down sometimes it's hard to be optimistic.

I realize that there are women out there with low self-esteem, who feel they can't do better, their whole world revolves around a man, saw their mothers get hit, they blame themselves for why they got beat up, etc, etc...but there HAS to be something in you that tells you a person beating on you is wrong. So if you're a single woman with no kids and there are absolutely no other circumstances that prevents you from just walking out and leaving...then my sympathy level is quite low, to be honest. And if he's continuing to beat you up and you keep having kids (having one can slide) by your abuser then my sympathy level drops another notch. No one in their right mind would bring children into an abusive situation. And if you're DEFENDING your abuser on top of that, it drops another notch. It sickens me to hear women defend the guy for beating her. It's like you're not going to learn until you're SERIOUSLY hurt or in the grave.

I blame the society for this. The media brainwashes girls with this idea of the perfect man and happily ever after at a young age. So women grow up and get into these relationships looking for the ideal man and when they dont get what they want they justify staying in it. I think the main reason women stay after abuse is because they have already put all of their self esteem and hopes into the man and cant move on. On a less dramatic level its the same reason women put so much energy into trying to change the man when they know he isnt right for them.

Jazzde wrote:

I blame the society for this. The media brainwashes girls with this idea of the perfect man and happily ever after at a young age. So women grow up and get into these relationships looking for the ideal man and when they dont get what they want they justify staying in it. I think the main reason women stay after abuse is because they have already put all of their self esteem and hopes into the man and cant move on. On a less dramatic level its the same reason women put so much energy into trying to change the man when they know he isnt right for them.

This is true. Image plays a big part in why women stay with abusive men. That's why so often women in these relationship will posture and pose around their friends and family, trying to make it seem like theirs is actually a picture perfect union. In addition to other things going on (like child support, lifestyle accommodation ...and perhaps even fear that the guy will try and kill them should they leave) they are sometimes too caught up with image and don't want to be perceived as a outer failure in relationships.

I don't want to make light of the should be hit by a bus abuser, but it takes two to be in a relationship. That goes for an abusive relationship too. At some point(s) the abusee has had the power to get out. Does he go to work? Hell does he go to sleep? Is there a phone in your house that dials 911?

DO something, for godsake.

If she's opted to stay and play victim, then she's part of the problem.

I think we need to look at a brief history of this sort of thing. It used to be, like in Francine Hughes (the Burning Bed)'s time, if your husband was unhappy with you and hitting you, it was because YOU weren't trying hard enough to be a good wife, to make him happy, and you got no sympathy and little help from anybody. And in her case, she DID leave, she divorced him and got a restraining order, he didn't care, he moved into their new home and made himself at home. The police would lock him up for the weekend but then he'd be back, she went to everybody and they all had the same story, nobody could help her.

And even today I'm sure women are still being raised with the mentality that if he hits you, it's your fault, and if that's your training from the very beginning, I don't know how or when they decide to rail against their upbringing.

And then you have another side of it, the side that few people here have brought up. A lot of these beaters threaten to kill the women, or their children, or their mothers, if they ever try to leave them. Now, odds are he's just bluffing, but how many people really want to take the chance and find out? And unfortunately that's often what you have to do to finally get out, call his bluff and see if he IS going to try and kill you and your family.

RedBedroom wrote:

I think that for women who stay in abusive relationships, it is at times, just the place they are in and they feel they can't go another way. Immaturity, lack of education, lack of funds, all are things that make some women stay when they could leave easier than they otherwise would.

For those who have kids and are abused, sometimes, I think they are worn down to nothing and fear the time alone the abuser would have with the kids should they separate.

I agree with this! Many of the women already suffer from low self-esteem and this may be what they expect in a relationship. They don't realize that it can be different. There's a lot more to abuse than the physical stuff. Many of these women are so worn down emotionally that by the time the abuse comes, it's just another step. Plus, there may be a part of them that feels they deserve it - supper was late, the kids were too noisy, he only hits when he's drinking, and so on. It doesn't make sense for those of us not in that situation, but for these women who are already so emotionally battered down, it's different. Also, the woman may truly love the guy, and abusers know how to woo the woman back, saying the right things, placating them with gifts, and so on. Many of the women are afraid to do something about it, esp. if they have kids.

I think at some point, the women does need to take that step and get out, but it's also a very hard step to take.

I would never disregard the more egregious wrong of the abuser, but at some point the victim has to take some responsibility for their part of the situation (even if their "part" was only allowing it to continue.) I know there are situations where he has all the money, credit cards and power...and that she may have no where else to go, but I wonder how many of those domestic abuse cases stack up against the one's where she opportunity to leave, but opts not to. I just don't like perpetual or willing victims. In my mind it should be over the very first time he lays hands on her in anger. Don't cry and hope that you can temper that angry side of his with your love. That's absurd. Recognize that love isn't supposed to leave bruises and leave.

Which is all very inspiring and easy to say, but exactly what is she supposed to do when he threatens to kill her or her family should she try to leave? Odds are he's bluffing, but how's she going to find out?


But I agree, at some point they have to just get the hell out of there, but that is a hell of a lot easier to say than to actually do.

MINDFUCK wrote:

She was a victim the first time she was hit. After that she was an enabler.

The first time somebody abuses another person, the crossroads is right in front of them. Whichever path you take you're gonna be partly responsible for. Abusive guys build up to a pitch with the more theyre allowed to get away with. Take action the 1st time it happens and it will just be a single episode. Abusive men are scum and need to be knocked around themselves but I sometimes have a hard time feeling sorry for victim because they had power at some point.

Anyone else have something they'd like to add?

I have sympathy for them. I don't believe in blaming the victim and I don't know what has happened to them in their life. It's easy for an outsider to say "oh she just needs to leave" but not knowing what's going on in her head, I just don't think it's that easy.

I don't believe that any woman wants to be abused, I think that if she felt like she could leave, she would. It becomes more complicated for me when kids are involved.

It's not just woman. I've been a victim of partner abuse and I'm a man. Just because you're a victim doesn't mean you're a weak person.

JADACITY wrote:

Chris wrote:

How much sympathy do you have for them?

Depends on the situation. I agree with Atown that nobody should be getting beat up in their relationship but there comes a point where the victim has to stop being the victim and find a way out. I actually have less sympathy for women with kids who stay in abusive relationships, because that's teaching them that domestic violence is either okay and because chances are that if he's beating her, then he's probably knocking their kids around too. You can be a victim w/o playing one. People who PLAY the victim get little sympathy from me.

You mean leave the husband who controls all their finances? And support their kids on what? And go where? No money, no way to get very far.

And then the husband finds you.

And kills you.

Why? Because he controls you.

Rockbird wrote:

It's not just woman. I've been a victim of partner abuse and I'm a man. Just because you're a victim doesn't mean you're a weak person.

good point.

I was a victim growing up, but I'm not one now. If anything, it proves how strong you are if you overcome it. Strong and lucky too, imo.

Rockbird wrote:

You mean leave the husband who controls all their finances? And support their kids on what? And go where? No money, no way to get very far.

And then the husband finds you.

And kills you.

Why? Because he controls you.

Only as long as you let him control you. As long as you're willing to be dominated and have no life or freedom of your own.


If my grandmother could get a divorce in the 50s when women were not near as popular in the work force or as single mothers, and be the FIRST divorce on the town's books which won her no favors with anybody, and get a job and support herself and her four kids, I don't believe it's impossible for people in this day and age to wise up and leave before letting it drag on too long.

Supernova wrote:

Rockbird wrote:

You mean leave the husband who controls all their finances? And support their kids on what? And go where? No money, no way to get very far.

And then the husband finds you.

And kills you.

Why? Because he controls you.

Only as long as you let him control you. As long as you're willing to be dominated and have no life or freedom of your own.


If my grandmother could get a divorce in the 50s when women were not near as popular in the work force or as single mothers, and be the FIRST divorce on the town's books which won her no favors with anybody, and get a job and support herself and her four kids, I don't believe it's impossible for people in this day and age to wise up and leave before letting it drag on too long.

I don't really think that is always the case. You can get a restraining order, go to a shelter, do all the right things and an abuser can still find you and kill you.

That doesn't mean that a woman should stay, obviously she shouldn't (or a man if it's a man being abused), but the most dangerous time for a victim of DV is right after she leaves and if she DOESN'T have support, cash, a place to go or heaven forbid her husband is in law enforcement or has connections ( my biological father was a cop and tried to kidnap my brother and I and ended up losing his job over it) then the smart thing to do might not be to leave at that moment. I mean, that takes a lot of planning and it's really scary. If she has kids and doesn't have any proof of DV, then she could lose her kids too which is a huge motivator to stay.