I recently had an argument over the subject of ex-gays and I wanted to expand on the topic a bit. We all heard of so-called "repairative therapy" that gets talked about on the news, where some gays go to "fix" or "change" their sexuality from gay to straight. So what are your thoughts on the processes? I'd like to hold an interesting conversation on this. Do you think it's possible for people (in this case. . .gays) to walk away from their sexual orientation??? I think its bullshit and i think most people probably do, but some people really believe sexuality is a choice so if you do do you think somebody could choose to be gay or not be gay?

Once upon a time people may have thought it would work, but today I'm hard pressed to imagine that many still do. I think today so-called 'Reparative Therapy' is more about shutting gay people up and keeping them submissive through reinforcement of a 'Heterosexual lifestyle' than it is about actually turning them from gay to straight.

RobbieFTW wrote:

So what are your thoughts on the processes? I'd like to hold an interesting conversation on this. Do you think it's possible for people (in this case. . .gays) to walk away from their sexual orientation???

I think it's a bunch of nonsense to be honest. Sexual orientation isn't like a light switch that you can just turn off and on like that. If it was that easy to change your sexual orientation then NOBODY would be gay because every gay person would "turn" straight! Obviously that doesn't happen and these poor souls are just fooling themselves (and indeed everyone else as well). Psychologically speaking, it basically takes a traumatic experience to alter your personality in such an extreme manner where your sexual orientation could change.

RobbieFTW wrote:

I think its bullshit and i think most people probably do, but some people really believe sexuality is a choice so if you do do you think somebody could choose to be gay or not be gay?

I'd be curious to hear the responses from these folks as well. But like you, I have to call

Are we just discussing male homosexuals? Otherwise, I can only think of one "ex-gay". Anne Heche. Wait, I'm tellin' a lie. My wife used to work with a woman named Paula who was involved with another woman. The both went on the "decaf camping adventure" (to anyone who read that post.) They were very...um...loud at night. Any way, far as I know, Paula is still a lesbian but we found out later that her partner (can't remember her name) got married to a man and had children. Maybe all this proves is that heterosexual women are more likely to experiment than men. I don't believe being gay is a choice. The only therapy needed is for the individual to be able to accept who they are, not to become someone they're not.

I think it's very narrow-minded to think a person cannot "change," so to speak. Perhaps no one person is all the way one way or another to begin with, so it essentially is not changing.

We can basically give women a penis and call them a man. But a willing gay person cannot choose to become heterosexual? Sounds inconsistent to me.

Being gay itself may not be a choice but relationships are a choice(I think it's degrading to the relationship to say otherwise). For people so bent on tolerance, I find it funny that the idea that a person can choose to take measures to become heterosexual is seen as so absurd. Respect people different than you.

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

I think it's very narrow-minded to think a person cannot "change," so to speak. Perhaps no one person is all the way one way or another to begin with, so it essentially is not changing.

We can basically give women a penis and call them a man. But a willing gay person cannot choose to become heterosexual? Sounds inconsistent to me.

Being gay itself may not be a choice but relationships are a choice(I think it's degrading to the relationship to say otherwise). For people so bent on tolerance, I find it funny that the idea that a person can choose to take measures to become heterosexual is seen as so absurd. Respect people different than you.

You think people can change their sexual orientations?
Got news for you: THEY CANT!!! Everyone's sexuality is hardwired in their brains and set by the time their 6.

alan smithee wrote:

Quote :

You think people can change their sexual orientations? LMAO!
Got news for you: THEY CANT!!! Everyone's sexuality is hardwired in their brains and set by the time their 6.

Double

RobbieFTW wrote:

You think people can change their sexual orientations?
Got news for you: THEY CANT!!! Everyone's sexuality is hardwired in their brains and set by the time their 6.

I honestly think that's a load of crap. If you don't wanna change, that's your business. But it seems some people feel threatened by those who do. I don't believe in sexual "orientation" anyway. People aren't "hardwired;" we ain't robots. So I don't buy into that crap; sorry. If you don't wanna change, I ain't gonna force you. That doesn't mean I buy into some ridiculous notion that people are robots.

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

RobbieFTW wrote:

You think people can change their sexual orientations?
Got news for you: THEY CANT!!! Everyone's sexuality is hardwired in their brains and set by the time their 6.

I honestly think that's a load of crap. If you don't wanna change, that's your business. But it seems some people feel threatened by those who do. I don't believe in sexual "orientation" anyway. People aren't "hardwired;" we ain't robots. So I don't buy into that crap; sorry. If you don't wanna change, I ain't gonna force you. That doesn't mean I buy into some ridiculous notion that people are robots.

I beg to differ but I don't want to argue the point.

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

RobbieFTW wrote:

You think people can change their sexual orientations?
Got news for you: THEY CANT!!! Everyone's sexuality is hardwired in their brains and set by the time their 6.

I honestly think that's a load of crap. If you don't wanna change, that's your business. But it seems some people feel threatened by those who do. I don't believe in sexual "orientation" anyway. People aren't "hardwired;" we ain't robots. So I don't buy into that crap; sorry. If you don't wanna change, I ain't gonna force you. That doesn't mean I buy into some ridiculous notion that people are robots.

I don't think anyone feels "threatened". The idea that someone controls their sexual orientation is what is absurd. It can no more be changed than someone can change their race. Robotics has nothing to do with it. We are who we are. I'm a straight female. No one can change that. No camp, classes or public pressure can make me into something else. It's no different with people who are gay.

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

RobbieFTW wrote:

You think people can change their sexual orientations?
Got news for you: THEY CANT!!! Everyone's sexuality is hardwired in their brains and set by the time their 6.

I honestly think that's a load of crap. If you don't wanna change, that's your business. But it seems some people feel threatened by those who do. I don't believe in sexual "orientation" anyway. People aren't "hardwired;" we ain't robots. So I don't buy into that crap; sorry. If you don't wanna change, I ain't gonna force you. That doesn't mean I buy into some ridiculous notion that people are robots.

People are absolutely "hardwired", another term for having INNATE characteristics. The most a gay person can do is enter a relationship with somebody of the opposite sex and play the "part" and they could never be with somebody of the same sex again (or ever) and guess what? They'll still be gay! It's the same as being born left or right handed. You can "teach" somebody to write with the hand they're not inclined to use but they'll NEVER stop having a desire to use it. It's the same way with being gay. You may not believe in a sexual orientation, but it's been pretty proven to be real and everyone has one.

Ex-gay camps are a farce!!! Once more . . . nobody can change what they inherently ARE and sexuality IS inherent. Sorry for crushing yer hope there FM!

RobbieFTW wrote:

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

I honestly think that's a load of crap. If you don't wanna change, that's your business. But it seems some people feel threatened by those who do. I don't believe in sexual "orientation" anyway. People aren't "hardwired;" we ain't robots. So I don't buy into that crap; sorry. If you don't wanna change, I ain't gonna force you. That doesn't mean I buy into some ridiculous notion that people are robots.

People are absolutely "hardwired", another term for having INNATE characteristics. The most a gay person can do is enter a relationship with somebody of the opposite sex and play the "part" and they could never be with somebody of the same sex again (or ever) and guess what? They'll still be gay! It's the same as being born left or right handed. You can "teach" somebody to write with the hand they're not inclined to use but they'll NEVER stop having a desire to use it. It's the same way with being gay. You may not believe in a sexual orientation, but it's been pretty proven to be real and everyone has one.

Ex-gay camps are a farce!!! Once more . . . nobody can change what they inherently ARE and sexuality IS inherent. Sorry for crushing yer hope there FM!

It's not the same. You ain't crushing my hopes cause you didn't present me with any convincing arguments. I think somebody can absolutely change if they want to. They are not hardwired at all. As I said, if they are comfortable, that's their business. But that doesn't mean they are trapped inside anything. Sorry to crush YOUR hopes but people and their sexuality aren't so robotic.

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

]

It's not the same. You ain't crushing my hopes cause you didn't present me with any convincing arguments. I think somebody can absolutely change if they want to. They are not hardwired at all. As I said, if they are comfortable, that's their business. But that doesn't mean they are trapped inside anything. Sorry to crush YOUR hopes but people and their sexuality aren't so robotic.

Point is, I don't think anyone here needs to convince you. What you think doesn't matter when it comes to individuals and their personal being.

Scientific studies have shown that sexuality is hardwired. You don't have to believe it, but as I've stated, it doesn't matter you think on the subject. It's what the individual knows to be inside.

tmontyb wrote:

Point is, I don't think anyone here needs to convince you. What you think doesn't matter when it comes to individuals and their personal being.

Scientific studies have shown that sexuality is hardwired. You don't have to believe it, but as I've stated, it doesn't matter you think on the subject. It's what the individual knows to be inside.

Neither is what anyone on a forum thinks. In that case, shut down the forum; it's all pointless chatter. I'm tired of the "it doesn't matter what you think on the subject" talk; this is a forum. It's about giving different viewpoints. Enough trying to invalidate opposing viewpoints.

Scientific studies haven't shown crap. People read into them what they want to read, always will. Sexuality is not a slave to science. Science has also laughed at humans being hardwired for anything as the years have passed.

Besides, I know a contradiction in your argument. If an individual is SEEKING to change their physical attractions, then obvious what they know to be inside is different from what Science tries to tell them that they are. So I agree, an individual is what they believe to be inside, and if they believe to be different than what they currently are physically, I believe they can choose to change themselves. "It's what the individual knows to be inside." Indeed, and if an individual decides they are not gay, then they can change. What amazes me is how people are are content with being gay are so offended at the idea that somebody who isn't content could possibly change, as if it effects them.

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

tmontyb wrote:

Point is, I don't think anyone here needs to convince you. What you think doesn't matter when it comes to individuals and their personal being.

Scientific studies have shown that sexuality is hardwired. You don't have to believe it, but as I've stated, it doesn't matter you think on the subject. It's what the individual knows to be inside.

Neither is what anyone on a forum thinks. In that case, shut down the forum; it's all pointless chatter. I'm tired of the "it doesn't matter what you think on the subject" talk; this is a forum. It's about giving different viewpoints. Enough trying to invalidate opposing viewpoints.

Scientific studies haven't shown crap. People read into them what they want to read, always will. Sexuality is not a slave to science.

Besides, I know a contradiction in your argument. If an individual is SEEKING to change their physical attractions, then obvious what they know to be inside is different from what Science tries to tell them that they are. So I agree, an individual is what they believe to be inside, and if they believe to be different than what they currently are physically, I believe they can choose to change themselves. "It's what the individual knows to be inside." Indeed, and if an individual decides they are not gay, then they can change. What amazes me is how people are are content with being gay are so offended at the idea that somebody who isn't content could possibly change, as if it effects them.

I stick by what I said. but moving on from that, you just validated the point that sexuality is hardwired.

Thing that amazes me is how you always seem to wind up on gay topics with your passive aggressive rhetoric. I'm just saying........

Shale wrote:

Well, here comes that BISEXUAL Shale to muck up the arguments. And he has gotten more flak from his gay friends than he has from str8. Go figure!

I was raised heterosexual and quite happy chasing pussy for my adolescent and young adult years. I first started admitting a desire for males while in the Air Force while reading an article in Playboy magazine about Fire Island. I first had sex with a guy about 3 years later during the free luv atmosphere in New Orleans. Over my lifetime I have done an equal number of guys and girls, and for two decades was married to a woman and for most of that time had exclusive sex with her, which I thoroly enjoyed. Towards the end of that time I started playing around with guys again and since my wife and I separated have exclusively done men for 12 years (with one exception-a 3-way with a woman and a man)

Some gay & str8 ppl argue that sexual orientation has to be one or the other and don't count that Bi ppl are credible. But I don't agree. I am not "confused," as a gay friend calls me - I enjoy both men and women and that skews all the "innate orientation" theories because, what is a person that loves both genders.

Also, sexuality can be mutable. Ppl do change their orientation. I have seen it, but it only works when it runs a natural course. I do not think you can force it like the Ex-Gay advocates claim. I think there are some ppl who are exclusively het or homo. It is called a bell curve, where a few on either end are not mutable, but the majority of the population falls somewhere on the curve (which I must be sitting right on top of). These are the ppl who are het but put in prison can - and do - get it on with guys. These are the guys who prefer other guys but if need be can be a breeder like my partner Jim who had a daughter from is first marriage.

Sorry gay guys if that makes me a traitor to the cause, but that is from my own experience and observation. (And maybe a little hostility to my gay male friends who call me confused because they don't experience my feelings and make judgments just like the misinformed heterosexuals)

I don't think you're confused at all. I definitely believe there are people who like both. I'm gay, but have had sex with women. I have a 25 year old son and he was conceived with pure love.

I do believe our sexual orientation is what is it is and we were born that that way.

tmontyb wrote:

I stick by what I said. but moving on from that, you just validated the point that sexuality is hardwired.

Thing that amazes me is how you always seem to wind up on gay topics with your passive aggressive rhetoric. I'm just saying........

I didn't validate anything except my claims that it is not hardwired. I never argued that you can force somebody to change against their will.

I wind up in topics where people reply to me. Maybe the people who disagree with me in these topics have a tendency to be ultra-defensive. Passive aggressive rhetoric? Give it a rest. lol You just seem to like taking cheap shots at me in debates.

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

tmontyb wrote:

I stick by what I said. but moving on from that, you just validated the point that sexuality is hardwired.

Thing that amazes me is how you always seem to wind up on gay topics with your passive aggressive rhetoric. I'm just saying........

I didn't validate anything except my claims that it is not hardwired. I never argued that you can force somebody to change against their will.

I wind up in topics where people reply to me. Maybe the people who disagree with me in these topics have a tendency to be ultra-defensive. Passive aggressive rhetoric? Give it a rest. lol You just seem to like taking cheap shots at me in debates.

I'm not taking any cheap shots. I'm calling as I see it. You seem extremely anti-gay, but you pussyfoot around it instead of just coming out and saying it. Yes, this is way off topic, but I just thought I'd put it out there on how I perceive it. I'm not going to argue back and forth on it.

tmontyb wrote:

I'm not taking any cheap shots. I'm calling as I see it. You seem extremely anti-gay, but you pussyfoot around it instead of just coming out and saying it. Yes, this is way off topic, but I just thought I'd put it out there on how I perceive it. I'm not going to argue back and forth on it.

I only seem anti-gay to people who can't take different outlooks on issues than they have. If I was anti-gay, I would come right out and say it. I'm not. Your perception just seems to be clouded by what you want to see. You don't like disagreement with you so it's easier to take if I'm 'anti gay' instead of just seeing things differently than you do. Least that's what I see. And I ain't going to fight back and forth all day on your biased "perception" of me.

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

tmontyb wrote:

I'm not taking any cheap shots. I'm calling as I see it. You seem extremely anti-gay, but you pussyfoot around it instead of just coming out and saying it. Yes, this is way off topic, but I just thought I'd put it out there on how I perceive it. I'm not going to argue back and forth on it.

I only seem anti-gay to people who can't take different outlooks on issues than they have. if I was anti-gay, I would come right out and say it. I'm not. Your perception just seems to be clouded by what you want to see.

I hope these therapies or "conversions" are free cause from what I hear just about all "ex-gays" wind up going gay again @ some point. Leopards can't change their spots I don't think.

Waste of time, energy, money and soul. It would be a lot less taxing on a gay persons finances and spirit to accept who and what he is, rather than trying to change what was predetermined and set in theoretical stone.