Does religion discourage independent thinking?

^^^^Depends who you ask OD.

Shale wrote:

thepossiblepolice wrote:
IMO, it's not the idea that you hold that makes you closed minded, its the belief that everyone else is wrong. I personally am agnostic, I don't believe that humans can "know" what happens after we die, but I'm willing to accept that someone else believes that they do, and that perhaps there are people who some how do. ANYONE could be right, imo. You could be right, but it's not my opinion that you are. Holding an opinion doesn't make someone closed minded, imo, but thinking that your opinion is fact, does.

Also, just because someone is closed minded,that doesn't make them bad or "wrong" imo. It just means that their mind isn't open. A religion that teaches "this is the way, the only way, the right way" period would of course foster closed mindedness, IMO, but I don't care what someone else believes, closed minded or not, until they try to force their view upon others.

I totally agree with this, does that make me closed-minded?

probably just wishy washy.

Chris wrote:Does active involvement in religion or faith come at the price of someone having to sacrifice their independent thinking at the mantle of its principals?

Yes and no. It really depends. For some folks it does and for others it doesn't. However, I will be so bold to say that the more likely you are to have been indoctrinated into a belief system, the more likely it has destroyed your ability to think for yourself. Islamic extremism is the obvious example backing this theory up. People that never question their own beliefs or who refuse to consider the beliefs of others are incapable of independent thinking due to the influence of their own religion. I believe in God, but I have questioned my beliefs before, just as I question and consider all other belief systems I am exposed to. Those that reject a belief system (whether religious based or not) because it conflicts with their own established belief system and they never examine WHY, those are the people whose independent thinking abilities have been damaged.

One of the funniest most entertaining and "saddest" things you can do is go up to a typical self confessed "Christian" in America, and ask them some basic questions about their own religion such as "who wrote the bible" or "why did Jesus speak in parables" or "what the most important commandment in the bible is". You'll find that very few typical so-called Christians can answer these basic question. And you'll find that about the same percentage (ie: very little) ever actually bother to attend church on a regular basis (even though they also tend to believe that they should). The question in my mind often comes up "why are you even a Christian if you don't know much about Christianity and rarely practice it?" You'll find that most people will say that's how they were brought up. In other words, them being a "Christian" serves no purpose other than to serve itself. This is the MAJORITY of so-called Christians in American. People that believe America should be a "Christian" nation with Christian principles, not because they actually know or care about those principles, but because that's just how they were brought up! These are people who've been indoctrinated into a belief system and blindly accept it without question. These are the people incapable of independent thought.

They are also called conservatives!

^^^^It's a shame you tacked on that last line, you might've had an intelligent post. Just goes to show superiority complexes squash otherwise fruitful limbs.

I think few people today, religious or not, really practice independent thinking. They believe in the most cushy beliefs they can. For some that means the idea that heaven is the final destiny for all no matter what. For others, it means rejecting the idea that they might actually have to answer to a higher authority whether or not it goes with their plans. People don't think independently; they think conveniently.

Side note unrelated to this post: Independent thinking doesn't bend truth. Truth is what it is and trying to think around truth, no matter how independently done, is always going to land you in the dung.

Forgiveness Man wrote:^^^^It's a shame you tacked on that last line, you might've had an intelligent post. Just goes to show superiority complexes squash otherwise fruitful limbs.

Well then let me give you a bit of a reality check: the majority of conservatives in America identify themselves as being part of the "Christian right". These same people stereotype the majority of the folks on the left as being "godless" and anti-religion. And the fact that you recognize just how "intellegent" my post would have been had I not offended your conservative sensibilities proves just how dead on my analysis was.

Forgiveness Man wrote:I think few people today, religious or not, really practice independent thinking. They believe in the most cushy beliefs they can. For some that means the idea that heaven is the final destiny for all no matter what. For others, it means rejecting the idea that they might actually have to answer to a higher authority whether or not it goes with their plans. People don't think independently; they think conveniently.

Again, (and according to both of your examples) this mostly fits the "religious" bill. People that are non-religious don't give two shits about heaven or hell BECAUSE they are independent thinkers. Only religious people consider heaven, hell, "purgatory" or any other religious based ideas. So for many of them, YES they are incapable of independent thinking and believe whatever makes them feel better about themselves. The question was does religion discourage independent thinking (not do things unrelated to religion discourage independent thinking). Many things can discourage independent thinking.

^^^^^The reason your post would've been intelligent would be that it describes liberals who identify themselves as Christian more than it describes conservatives. Don't think your post offended me though. It takes more than misguided cheap shots to do that.

It fits some religious but I think it's equally as applicable to the nonreligious. I dont believe most nonreligious are really freethinkers at all. I think they too go with what is most comfortable for them. They are just comfortable with something else.

I think religion can encourage independent thinking based on my observations.

Nystyle709 wrote:
LOL. Ya'll just come up with anything don't cha? You can't literally mean that, lmao. You just can't. Typically being 'open minded' does not mean you don't or can't believe in anything. Where the hell would you even get that from? See, this is why people have problems with religion in general. It's not the religion itself. It's you people who come up with the most asinine analogies, assumptions and generalizations to justify how your thinking is the only 'right' way and anyone who thinks differently is somehow 'immoral' or wrong. You don't have to accept what I think. I don't have to accept what you think. But the close mindedness comes from not even willing to incorporate anything new or even listen to anything outside of what your religion tells you. Add the fact that you all are only following doctrine that a human made up and don't even know if it's actually the word of God or whomever you believe in.

NY, you forget that this is the same person who tried to tell you that you were against all forms of punishment because at least one of your objections to capitol punishment was that an innocent person could be wrongfully put to death. Now the statement that always having an open mind makes it impossible to believe anything. Plato would have laughed himself silly at such rhetoric. Maybe the feeble minded wouldn’t be able to make up their mind as to what to believe but for any person with an ounce of intelligence, having an open mind just means having the attitude that “I could be wrong. I’m willing to consider other points of view.” It doesn’t mean constantly changing your mind.

alan smithee wrote:NY, you forget that this is the same person who tried to tell you that you were against all forms of punishment because at least one of your objections to capitol punishment was that an innocent person could be wrongfully put to death. Now the statement that always having an open mind makes it impossible to believe anything. Plato would have laughed himself silly at such rhetoric. Maybe the feeble minded wouldn’t be able to make up their mind as to what to believe but for any person with an ounce of intelligence, having an open mind just means having the attitude that “I could be wrong. I’m willing to consider other points of view.” It doesn’t mean constantly changing your mind.

Why is it ya'll always gotta discuss ME instead of the issues?

If that is what having an open mind means, those who hate religious are no more in line with that than religious. In fact, I don't think many people really have an open mind about much of anything serious, at least going by their attitudes and your definition. So religious or not, I don't see much of a difference. It's just human nature.

GrayWolf wrote:Religion tries to lay out golden rules for every or most aspects to life and to get people to think a certain way, but it is up to each individual to decide how much they wanna buy into it. Some people need religion to make them stronger. Some need to walk away to be stronger. So yeah it tries but if it actually does then that's the persons fault.

I've always believed these golden rules are just basic common sense where religion itself is unnecessary. Treat people with decency & kindness. Help someone out anytime you can. Don't take something that doesn't belong to you. Don't harm someone who has done no harm to you. I think religion is a good thing for some people who find a peace & comfort in it. But when the religion itself (or some group of peoples translation of it) actually tells you to prejudice yourself against someone ("break fellowship" even BAN from the church-forever) who isn't harming anyone because some obscure verse is translated a certain way, then a person has to at least make the effort to think for themselves. When mockery of certain groups of people is condoned, and I've seen it repeatedly & people either agree with it or sit quietly-that is not independent thought. It isn't the religion necessarily but the way people allow themselves to be influenced by it.

Oh & that commandment spoken of in another post--"the greatest of these is love."