I was in the (cub) scouts when I was eight years old and hated it (I only joined because two of my friends were in it). I recall there was an allegiance we had to memorize, but I can't remember it or if it had the "morally straight" line attached to it. I didn't last long, at some point we had to re-enroll and when my mom asked me if I was interested, I said no.

As for their right to discriminate against gays and atheists: I echo what's already been said. Their little "private club" can be as bigoted and small-minded as they wish, if they aren't taking any government checks. For as long as they do, the organization is not "private", and have to be held to the same public non-discriminatory clauses as other organizations that are accepting public grants. I get the feeling they will eventually buckle if their feet are unabashedly held to the flame on this issue.

Forgiveness Man wrote:

Discrimination is sometimes an overused phrase; you do not have a right to join the boy scouts and they have no obligation to let you in. I am a little tired of this notion that people are somehow entitled to gain entry into wherever they want. We only care about discrimination sometimes but we really practice it every day and support it's practice every day. We just don't care about it unless it involves specific groups cause then that "changes" everything. But the sad fact is that we all discriminate and are all fine with it when it's politically correct to do so.

Such as? I'd like to hear some of your examples of the everyday discrimination that "we all do".

Forgiveness Man wrote:

If discrimination means you shouldn't get tax dollars, than tax dollars should probably not even be collected cause then it would truly be impossible to give it to anybody validly.

Again, you'd have to elaborate on this for anyone to actually take this statement seriously. What are your examples backing up this notion?

Impact wrote:

As for their right to discriminate against gays and atheists: I echo what's already been said. Their little "private club" can be as bigoted and small-minded as they wish, if they aren't taking any government checks. For as long as they do, the organization is not "private", and have to be held to the same public non-discriminatory clauses as other organizations that are accepting public grants. I get the feeling they will eventually buckle if their feet are unabashedly held to the flame on this issue.

Unfortunately, "morally straight" is a completely subjective term which boils down to the opinion of the organization. If the boy scouts were truly "morally straight" then they wouldn't discriminate on the count of sexual orientation or religion. By doing so, they are in fact declairing that anyone who is gay or doesn't practice religion is by definition an immoral person. Ridiculous!

@Bryce: We all discriminate in the company we keep, in we let into our home, in the groups we join and let our children join, and in just about every area of life. Life is constant discrimination. We only want groups that abide by our beliefs to be recognized. The reasons we discriminate vary of course. But we all do it. This very thread is basically proposing discriminating against the boyscouts because they have a different values system. We all do it. We just rename it most of the time.

Forgiveness Man wrote:

@Bryce: We all discriminate in the company we keep, in we let into our home, in the groups we join and let our children join, and in just about every area of life. Life is constant discrimination. We only want groups that abide by our beliefs to be recognized. The reasons we discriminate vary of course. But we all do it. This very thread is basically proposing discriminating against the boyscouts because they have a different values system. We all do it. We just rename it most of the time.

There are certain instances where discrimination is justified and other times when its not. What you are doing is using the blanket term "discrimination" and applying it everything while ignoring the reason why discrimination is warrented in some cases and bigotry in others. I let people I know and like into my home. Whether I know someone or like someone isn't dependent on their sexual orientation or religious beliefs. We discriminate against individuals on a regular basis, not demographics of people! If you want to be recognized as a "morally straight" organization then it's pretty redunkulous to insist upon immoral standards of bigotry. The boy scouts is an evil organization because they practice bigotry. It's as simple as that! When discrimination is based on private safety, it can be justified. When discrimination is based on public bigotry, it cannot be justified. Your problem is that you don't like it when people call out bigtry when they see. You mistakenly think that calling out bigotry = bigotry itself. It doesn't!

^^^^I agree there are certain times when it is justified. It's when those times are that isn't so black and white, eh? The boy scouts are not evil or bigots. You are not calling out bigotry at all. All you're doing is claiming to have a superior worldview. The way I see it, it's no different. It's intolerance, and spinning intolerance as 'calling out intolerance' doesn't somehow make it tolerant.

People often become the very thing they claim to be against. That is exactly the case I see with this anti-boy scouts rhetoric. Call them bigots but in the process become bigoted by acting like your views are superior to theirs. I think bigotry is most alive in America today hiding under the guise of fighting bigotry. What better place for it to hide than by pretending to be fighting itself?

Forgiveness Man wrote:

^^^^I agree there are certain times when it is justified. It's when those times are that isn't so black and white, eh? The boy scouts are not evil or bigots. You are not calling out bigotry at all. All you're doing is claiming to have a superior worldview. The way I see it, it's no different.

And the way I see it is very different. I DO have a superior worldview than the boyscouts have because any worldview that advocates bigotry is inherently INFERIOR! I live by my own moral stadards that do not include being a bigot. If you don't see discrimination against gays or atheists as blatent bigotry, then you don't know what bigotry means.

BIGOTRY: A bigot is a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices, especially one exhibiting intolerance, and animosity toward those of differing beliefs. The predominant usage in modern English refers to persons hostile to those of differing race, ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, various mental disorders, or religion.

Forgiveness Man wrote:

It's intolerance, and spinning intolerance as 'calling out intolerance' doesn't somehow make it tolerant.

You're very confused young man. There is no "spinning" beyond what you are doing yourself. I haven't spun anything, I am stating facts. The boy scouts DO in fact discriminate on the basis of sexuality and religion. Nothing is spun in that statement! I'm simply pointing out that this is an example of blatent bigotry. Now, you many not AGREE with that fact, but it's a fact nonetheless (by the textbook definition of the term and of how it's applied in common usage). I frankly can't see what motivates you to defend that position unless you happen to agree with it (which I suspect you do).

Forgiveness Man wrote:

People often become the very thing they claim to be against. That is exactly the case I see with this anti-boy scouts rhetoric. Call them bigots but in the process become bigoted by acting like your views are superior to theirs.

That's not what bigotry is. Again, you don't know the definition of the term. I'll invite you to read it again (posted above). Nobody here is being a "bigot" against the boys scouts by saying they are a bigoted organization.

Forgiveness Man wrote:

I think bigotry is most alive in America today hiding under the guise of fighting bigotry.

And I think you are 100% wrong and have absolutely NOTHING to back up that assertion other than your unwillingness to acknowledge when bigotry exists plain and simple.

I know what bigotry means, and you are one by your own definition. You can make all the excuses you want for why your intolerance is exempt but at the end of the day, you drink at the same bar. I know exactly what bigotry is. I read your definition and the paragraph before it makes it apply directly to you. It's your own words I'm looking at buddy.

Well you can think whatever you want. People always do.

Forgiveness Man wrote:

I know what bigotry means, and you are one by your own definition. You can make all the excuses you want for your intolerance is exempt but at the end of the day, you eat at the same bar.

No I'm not, not even close. You can say that I'm a bigot against the boyscouts if you want to use the broadest definition of the word. But you can't really criticize me for bigotry when the reason I'm against them is for being a bigotted organization. And you can't say that they are not bigots when that's what they are! You want to use circular logic here suggesting that I can't be against bigots when I'm a bigot myself (because I'm against bigots). That doesn't work! If you want to label me as intolorant, by all means do so. I am intolorant because I don't tolorate intolorance against race, religion, sexual orientation, etc. And that's exactly what the boy scouts are intolorant against. You can't deny that can you?

Forgiveness Man wrote:

I'm not confused. I'm merely stating the facts as I see them. You're no different than your picture of the boy scouts.

That's because you only chose to see the "facts" in a very obscure way. You want to liken me to a group that discriminates against people for very disgusting reasons, but you really can't. Because it's not evil to resist evil, and no matter how much you try, you simply can't compare the slayer of the devil to the devil himself!

Forgiveness Man wrote:

I know exactly what bigotry is. I read your definition and the paragraph before it makes it apply directly to you. It's your own words there.

Yes, but the paragraph AFTER (which you conveniently ignore) points out the very specific difference between me and the boys scouts, and also highlights exactly why their bigotry is evil and mine is justified!

Forgiveness Man wrote:

Well you can think whatever you want. People always do.

Words have never been more truly spoken!

You're back to the long multi-quoting. It definitely gives me responses some body.

You deny being a bigot? Shocking. (Cause bigots always admit to it. ) Of course, you later own it so I guess kudos there. You say I see the facts in an obscure way; I say you do. Oh the circles!

("there's is evil and mine is justified") Such a common mantra. I didn't ignore that paragraph at all; excuses are just that, excuses.

Thanks guys He decided not to join, we're looking into the Campfire organization instead.

^^^^They got campfire boys? I thought they only had campfire girls.

Forgiveness Man wrote:

^^^^They got campfire boys? I thought they only had campfire girls.

Nope, it's for boys and girls BTW, I found out that the Girls Scouts does not have the same rules as Boy Scouts and that there is a split off group from them called American Heritage girls or something like that, that does have the same policies as the Boy Scouts.

I was relieved because my daughter is a Girl Scout.

^^^^Never heard of the Heritage girls. I don't care much for Girl Scouts thanks to certain friends. Campfire boys eh? Interesting...

Boyscouts are like the KKK? Ah, the nation of blurred distinctions.

I think people's entitlement attitudes do them much more of a disservice than the scouts ever could. Life's too short to be so damn angry all the time.