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Alan Smithee
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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia.  I could face the death penalty there! Empty I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

    Post by TPP Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:28 pm


    http://motherjones.com/blue-marble/2011/02/miscarriage-death-penalty-georgia

    It's only February, but this year has been a tough one for women's health and reproductive rights. There's a new bill on the block that may have reached the apex (I hope) of woman-hating craziness. Georgia State Rep. Bobby Franklin—who last year proposed making rape and domestic violence "victims" into "accusers"—has introduced a 10-page bill that would criminalize miscarriages and make abortion in Georgia completely illegal. Both miscarriages and abortions would be potentially punishable by death: any "prenatal murder" in the words of the bill, including "human involvement" in a miscarriage, would be a felony and carry a penalty of life in prison or death. Basically, it's everything an "pro-life" activist could want aside from making all women who've had abortions wear big red "A"s on their chests.

    I doubt that a bill that makes a legal medical procedure liable for the death penalty will pass. The bill, however, shows an astonishing lack of concern for women's health and well-being. Under Rep. Franklin's bill, HB 1, women who miscarry could become felons if they cannot prove that there was "no human involvement whatsoever in the causation" of their miscarriage. There is no clarification of what "human involvement" means, and this is hugely problematic as medical doctors do not know exactly what causes miscarriages. Miscarriages are estimated to terminate up to a quarter of all pregnancies and the Mayo Clinic says that "the actual number is probably much higher because many miscarriages occur so early in pregnancy that a woman doesn't even know she's pregnant. Most miscarriages occur because the fetus isn't developing normally."

    Holding women criminally liable for a totally natural, common biological process is cruel and non-sensical. Even more ridiculous, the bill holds women responsible for protecting their fetuses from "the moment of conception," despite the fact that pregnancy tests aren't accurate until at least 3 weeks after conception. Unless Franklin (who is not a health professional) invents a revolutionary intrauterine conception alarm system, it's unclear how exactly the state of Georgia would enforce that rule other than holding all possibly-pregnant women under lock and key.

    I've seen a lot of anti-woman, hate-filled bills this year, but this one takes the cake. And it's not just anti-woman, it's anti-logic. The bill contends that Georgia is exempt from upholding Supreme Court decisions like Roe v. Wade because the Constitution's Article I only governs five crimes: counterfeiting, piracy, high seas felonies, offenses against the law of nations, and treason. According to the bill, since murder is not one of those five crimes, it should be solely governed by the state. The bill also mandates that doctors must try to save the mother and the fetus, even though as we know, there are many situations in which both cannot be saved. It also changes medical terminology, re-designating all zygotes, embryos, and concepti as fetuses. In the bill's logic, a fertilized egg is the same as a person, and its destruction is murder. Sometimes even a fertilized egg will fail to adhere to the uterine lining, so would that make a uterus a murderer? At least the bill doesn't propose instituting pro-life Stork Bucks or outlawing "space abortions"...yet.






    I've had two miscarriages, caused by who knows what...It's bad enough to lose a child, but to have to be investigated for murder afterward and face the dealth penalty??? There is NO WAY this law can pass.
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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia.  I could face the death penalty there! Empty Re: I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

    Post by Shale Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:45 pm

    thepossiblepolice wrote:... There is NO WAY this law can pass.

    We can only hope. Remember, Georgia is where a man spent two years in prison for having oral sex with his ex-wife.

    After their embarrassing Bowers vs Hardwicke case (arrested two men for having anal sex in their bedroom) they changed their "sodomy" law. A moot point now, since most states have abandoned such, but I thot Georgia was coming into modern concepts of sexuality.

    However, this sharia-minded "christian" let's me know that it is the same backward thinking Georgia of old.
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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia.  I could face the death penalty there! Empty Re: I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

    Post by TPP Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:50 pm

    I'm sorry Shale but I had to giggle that the guys name was Hardwicke... blushing
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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia.  I could face the death penalty there! Empty Re: I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

    Post by Supernova Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:52 pm

    How the hell could they make miscarriages a crime? That's something that (unfortunately) does happen 'naturally' and often doesn't need any help from the mother in question. That would be like making it a felony to sneeze or throw up.
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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia.  I could face the death penalty there! Empty Re: I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

    Post by TPP Wed Feb 23, 2011 4:54 pm

    Supernova wrote:How the hell could they make miscarriages a crime? That's something that (unfortunately) does happen 'naturally' and often doesn't need any help from the mother in question. That would be like making it a felony to sneeze or throw up.

    I know!
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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia.  I could face the death penalty there! Empty Re: I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

    Post by Shale Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:23 pm

    Supernova wrote:How the hell could they make miscarriages a crime? That's something that (unfortunately) does happen 'naturally' and often doesn't need any help from the mother in question. That would be like making it a felony to sneeze or throw up.

    If I were a defense attorney with such a law you better believe God would be called up as an accessory to murder.
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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia.  I could face the death penalty there! Empty Re: I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

    Post by Forgiveness Man Wed Feb 23, 2011 5:56 pm

    Supernova wrote:How the hell could they make miscarriages a crime? That's something that (unfortunately) does happen 'naturally' and often doesn't need any help from the mother in question. That would be like making it a felony to sneeze or throw up.
    You can't make miscarriages a crime, although I suspect the language in this report is quite misleading to what is really going on.
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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia.  I could face the death penalty there! Empty Re: I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

    Post by CeCe Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:50 pm

    Supernova wrote:How the hell could they make miscarriages a crime? That's something that (unfortunately) does happen 'naturally' and often doesn't need any help from the mother in question. That would be like making it a felony to sneeze or throw up.

    This nut is not trying to make miscarriages a crime but attempt to override Roe vs Wade. What he wants is for all miscarriages to be "investigated". But regardless of cause, abortion is legal whether he likes it or not. This guy wants investigations, reports & death certificates. Hopefully the voters in Georgia will regain their senses come re-election time. Here's the nuttery in full.

    http://www.legis.ga.gov/Legislation/en-US/display.aspx?Legislation=31965
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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia.  I could face the death penalty there! Empty Re: I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

    Post by Forgiveness Man Wed Feb 23, 2011 6:54 pm

    ^^^^The "abortion is legal whether he likes it or not" isn't exactly the best argument...
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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia.  I could face the death penalty there! Empty Re: I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

    Post by CeCe Wed Feb 23, 2011 7:24 pm

    Forgiveness Man wrote:^^^^The "abortion is legal whether he likes it or not" isn't exactly the best argument...

    You can't have people prosecuted for doing legal things. Period.
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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia.  I could face the death penalty there! Empty Re: I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

    Post by CeCe Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:02 pm

    Shale wrote:

    However, this sharia-minded "christian" let's me know that it is the same backward thinking Georgia of old. [/size][/color]

    The American Taliban hard at work again. Maybe the people of Georgia will wake up & realize what they put in office. To even make the attempt to pull this off is insane.
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    Post by Alan Smithee Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:40 pm

    Who wants to take a guess at this assholes political affliation? You did't even have to guess, did you?
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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia.  I could face the death penalty there! Empty Re: I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

    Post by TPP Wed Feb 23, 2011 8:51 pm

    The same guy also tried to get legislation passed to change the labeling of domestic violence and rape victims from "victims" to "accusers". So instead of being someone whom something was "done to" if they tell anyone, victims become someone who is "doing something" to someone else: "accusing them". I don't agree with that either.
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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia.  I could face the death penalty there! Empty Re: I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

    Post by Forgiveness Man Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:02 pm

    CeCe wrote:
    Forgiveness Man wrote:^^^^The "abortion is legal whether he likes it or not" isn't exactly the best argument...

    You can't have people prosecuted for doing legal things. Period.

    That wasn't the reason why it wasn't the best logic. FORGIVENESS MAN
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    Post by CeCe Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:07 pm

    Forgiveness Man wrote:
    CeCe wrote:

    You can't have people prosecuted for doing legal things. Period.

    That wasn't the reason why it wasn't the best logic. FORGIVENESS MAN

    Well for some people logic doesn't exist. No answer will ever be acceptable to them. So there's no point in trying.
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    I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia.  I could face the death penalty there! Empty Re: I'm so glad I don't live in Georgia. I could face the death penalty there!

    Post by Forgiveness Man Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:10 pm

    CeCe wrote:Well for some people logic doesn't exist. No answer will ever be acceptable to them. So there's no point in trying.

    So you're telling me to stop trying? I see. Wink
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    Post by CeCe Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:24 pm

    Forgiveness Man wrote:
    CeCe wrote:Well for some people logic doesn't exist. No answer will ever be acceptable to them. So there's no point in trying.

    So you're telling me to stop trying? I see. Wink
    No actually you don't. He's claiming The Supreme Court doesn't have jurisdiction over Georgia THEREFORE Roe vs Wade does not apply. He is however, wrong. So it doesn't matter if the miscarriage was spontaneous or had assistance. No illegal act occurred. No illegal act, no crime, no investigation, no report, no "death" certificate. No case.
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:27 pm

    CeCe wrote:
    Forgiveness Man wrote:

    So you're telling me to stop trying? I see. Wink
    No actually you don't. He's claiming The Supreme Court doesn't have jurisdiction over Georgia THEREFORE Roe vs Wade does not apply. He is however, wrong. So it doesn't matter if the miscarriage was spontaneous or had assistance. No illegal act occurred. No illegal act, no crime, no investigation, no report, no "death" certificate. No case.
    Then no reason for everyone here to huff, puff, and start slandering Georgia! Razz
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    Post by TPP Wed Feb 23, 2011 11:10 pm

    Forgiveness Man wrote:
    CeCe wrote:
    No actually you don't. He's claiming The Supreme Court doesn't have jurisdiction over Georgia THEREFORE Roe vs Wade does not apply. He is however, wrong. So it doesn't matter if the miscarriage was spontaneous or had assistance. No illegal act occurred. No illegal act, no crime, no investigation, no report, no "death" certificate. No case.
    Then no reason for everyone here to huff, puff, and start slandering Georgia! Razz

    Smile I'm sure Georgia is beautiful, I have good friends there...But this guy seems misguided.
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    Post by TSJFan4Ever Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:11 am

    Investigating miscarriages seems like such a waste of time. It's not something a woman actually wants to have happen and most are devastated by it. Investigating it will just make things all the worse for families that are mourning the loss of life.
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    Post by CatEyes10736 Fri Feb 25, 2011 12:15 am

    Utterly ridiculous. Seriously, this guy is now picking on women who miscarry. It’s not like he has any comparable interest to women who physically have to endure it. This is the same clown who wants rape victims to be singled out and labeled accusers. Obviously this clown wants women back in "their place".
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    Post by Chris Fri Feb 25, 2011 1:38 am

    Of course, to follow this logic, the miscarriag­es that would not show human involvemen­t could be still be charged with involuntar­y manslaught­er. Would a woman expect fines or probation for that? Does this mean that the law will require mortuary services or state burial for remains? Women who have an extra large period need to have the clots tested for zygote traces in case it proves to be a criminal investigat­ion? Will every woman in Georgia be given a red bio-hazard storage bin to save tampons and pads in?
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    Post by Impact Fri Feb 25, 2011 2:13 am

    Chris wrote:Of course, to follow this logic, the miscarriag­es that would not show human involvemen­t could be still be charged with involuntar­y manslaught­er. Would a woman expect fines or probation for that? Does this mean that the law will require mortuary services or state burial for remains? Women who have an extra large period need to have the clots tested for zygote traces in case it proves to be a criminal investigat­ion? Will every woman in Georgia be given a red bio-hazard storage bin to save tampons and pads in?

    Only unwed mothers.
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    Post by Alan Smithee Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:39 am

    What I find scary is that this wing nut feels secure enough to propose such a law. That the majority of his constituents might also favor treating women as if it were the 19th century again. Maybe next he’ll introduce legislation to reinstate the “Rule of Thumb” where it was lawful for a man to beat his wife with a stick as long as it wasn’t any bigger around than his thumb.
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Fri Feb 25, 2011 9:14 am

    thepossiblepolice wrote:Smile I'm sure Georgia is beautiful, I have good friends there...But this guy seems misguided.
    All I can say is that extremism breeds extremism.

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