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    What's your opinion on the death penalty?

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    • Post n°1

    What's your opinion on the death penalty? Empty What's your opinion on the death penalty?

    Post by CaffeinePlease Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:24 pm

    Hi Everybody,

    It's a pretty basic question, so I apologize if it's been asked before, but what's your opinion on the death penalty? Should it be abolished? Should it stay? Is it morally wrong? Is it moral?

    My own personal belief is that it's wrong. I think killing is wrong even if the accused is guilty because, to me, it'd be much more torturous to rot in prison than to have it over and done with. But the main reason I'm against it is because, yes, states have executed guilty people, but you can also be sure they've killed plenty of innocent people too. There's always room for mistakes and I don't believe executing people is any exception to that rule.
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    Post by Supernova Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:37 pm

    I am for it. Sure, life in prison is longer torture BUT it's done at the tax payer's expense, and these guys get on average 27 years' worth of appeals. I do not feel like feeding and housing cold blooded killers for 30 years so they can more likely die of old age than ever seeing the gurney and needle. When animals go vicious for no reason and kill we have them put down, why? Because in the matter of public safety it is the best thing to do because they can't be trusted not to attack again once they've tasted blood. And some people are just like animals, that is unfortunate, but that's not our fault and we shouldn't have to pay for it anymore than we have to with the innocent people who get slaughtered for profit or the hell of it.
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    Post by CeCe Fri Nov 09, 2012 6:58 pm

    I have the same primal instincts for revenge as a lot of people when some horrible crime is committed. But when I get hold of myself I'm against the death penalty. There's too much room for error. There is no doubt innocent people have been executed & that isn't balanced out by killing the guilty ones. I think we would be much better off giving a life sentence that IS a life sentence. No parole. Ever. Unless new evidence is presented, the prison is their home for the rest of their life. Period.

    The death penalty is actually the more expensive path. This is where the long line of appeals comes from. When someone is found guilty there is generally an automatic appeal & that is fair but if the result is the same the appeals should end unless new evidence is discovered. If criminals are KEPT behind bars the public is safe from them.
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    Post by Supernova Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:05 pm

    CeCe wrote:I have the same primal instincts for revenge as a lot of people when some horrible crime is committed. But when I get hold of myself I'm against the death penalty. There's too much room for error. There is no doubt innocent people have been executed & that isn't balanced out by killing the guilty ones. I think we would be much better off giving a life sentence that IS a life sentence. No parole. Ever. Unless new evidence is presented, the prison is their home for the rest of their life. Period.

    The death penalty is actually the more expensive path. This is where the long line of appeals comes from. When someone is found guilty there is generally an automatic appeal & that is fair but if the result is the same the appeals should end unless new evidence is discovered. If criminals are KEPT behind bars the public is safe from them.

    If they're KEPT, but murderers HAVE broken out of prison before, and will again, and then there are the guards, there was a big heyday in the news either early this year or sometime last year about a woman guard who was found strangled on a maximum security block because she was left alone to watch all the inmates. Executed murderers will NEVER have another chance to kill ANYone, behind bars or in front of them.

    And something else, I do not know what the level of security was, what the detail of the two inmates in question were, but I once saw on TV recorded footage inside a prison, one inmate stabbing another 75 times and the SWAT team or whoever handles the prison riots, just stood outside and WATCHED through the window, they didn't go in until the other guy was dead. Now sure he could've been on the lowest level of the prison food chain and so much the better, save the city all that money for housing him 30 years, but what if that guy was innocent? If it can happen on death row it can and does happen in general pop as well. So how do we justify letting innocent people get brutally killed when they're not even on death row? Shouldn't something be done about that too?
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:38 pm

    I believe the death penalty should be an option but should really only be used in extreme murder cases.
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    Post by Shale Fri Nov 09, 2012 7:42 pm

    CaffeinePlease wrote:...But the main reason I'm against it is because, yes, states have executed guilty people, but you can also be sure they've killed plenty of innocent people too. There's always room for mistakes and I don't believe executing people is any exception to that rule.
    CeCe wrote:I have the same primal instincts for revenge as a lot of people when some horrible crime is committed. But when I get hold of myself I'm against the death penalty. There's too much room for error. There is no doubt innocent people have been executed & that isn't balanced out by killing the guilty ones. I think we would be much better off giving a life sentence that IS a life sentence. No parole. Ever. Unless new evidence is presented, the prison is their home for the rest of their life. Period...

    ^ This

    So Supernova, you're not bothered by the innocent ppl who are executed?

    That is as nightmarish as any brutal murder by other perps. Bad enuf when they find out after someone spends a decade or two in jail for a crime he didn't commit, but at least when they say 'oops' he can try to salvage what is left of his life - it is not final.
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    Post by Alan Smithee Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:16 pm

    CeCe wrote:I have the same primal instincts for revenge as a lot of people when some horrible crime is committed. But when I get hold of myself I'm against the death penalty. There's too much room for error. There is no doubt innocent people have been executed & that isn't balanced out by killing the guilty ones. I think we would be much better off giving a life sentence that IS a life sentence. No parole. Ever. Unless new evidence is presented, the prison is their home for the rest of their life. Period.

    The death penalty is actually the more expensive path. This is where the long line of appeals comes from. When someone is found guilty there is generally an automatic appeal & that is fair but if the result is the same the appeals should end unless new evidence is discovered. If criminals are KEPT behind bars the public is safe from them.

    I co-sign about 99.9999999% of this. I do think that there are some people who just deserve to die but in the vast majority of cases lock them up.
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    Post by captainbryce Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:14 am

    My feelings on this issue are constantly evolving and I tend to flip-flop between being for it and against it.
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    Post by Supernova Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:58 am

    Shale wrote:


    ^ This

    So Supernova, you're not bothered by the innocent ppl who are executed?

    That is as nightmarish as any brutal murder by other perps. Bad enuf when they find out after someone spends a decade or two in jail for a crime he didn't commit, but at least when they say 'oops' he can try to salvage what is left of his life - it is not final.

    Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you the one agreeing that brutal murderers basically deserve to get back what they give to their victims? But since most evidence IS only circumstantial and very rarely is there a videotape to PROVE that the person on trial IS the actual murderer and not a victim of false ID, a cop/lawyer's vendetta, or wrong place wrong time, we often don't know for fact if people are innocent or guilty, we have to go on less than 100% cold hard factual evidence to make up our minds on who's guilty and innocent, as do the police and as do eventually the courts and therein is how we form our opinions on if somebody is innocent or not.

    BUT, but, there is always a but, more and more we are hearing about people in prison for 20-30 years all of a sudden being cleared by DNA tests. Unfortunately these are not always done even when they'll make or break the accused's proclamations of innocence, and why? I suppose people will argue about the cost and the time and the lack of manpower or whatever, but when the issue at hand is at least one human being's life, possibly more, on both sides, the victim and the suspect's, they should be done, especially since most of the time that is the ONLY thing to clear these people. But if it can't clear them, if it proves they are in fact guilty, then yes I say fry them and put in an express lane.
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    • Post n°10

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    Post by Suzi Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:23 am

    We don't have the DP in Canada so mostly I don't have to think about it. That is good because it is an issue I am torn about, I would like to be against it but then a Timothy McVeigh comes along and was responsible for the deaths of so many children. Then again wasn't the DP a real easy way out for him?
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    Post by Supernova Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:36 am

    Suzi wrote:We don't have the DP in Canada so mostly I don't have to think about it. That is good because it is an issue I am torn about, I would like to be against it but then a Timothy McVeigh comes along and was responsible for the deaths of so many children. Then again wasn't the DP a real easy way out for him?

    I guess that just depends on if you believe in Hell. Because I do, so I don't see it as being any easy way out because once they're dead, they have to answer and suffer for what they've done, no escape on that one. I have a friend in Canada who doesn't often speak about the matter but she agrees with me that some people should just be executed because they're never going to be 'cured' and they're never going to be able to be released and why take the chance that they could break out and do it again?
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    • Post n°12

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    Post by Shale Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:36 am

    Supernova wrote: Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't you the one agreeing that brutal murderers basically deserve to get back what they give to their victims? ...
    No, you're not wrong. As most ppl here who are against the death penalty have indicated, my emotions want known sociopaths to suffer some of the pain they inflict on others. I watch Deathwish, Law Abiding Citizen and Taken to appease those feelings. Revenge is an emotional response that calls for a vigilante to override the checks of a disfunctional legal system.

    But the entirety of your response was a dance around the question "are you not bothered by the innocent ppl who are executed?"

    And, by the number of ppl that the Innocence Project have proven were wrongly in prison for capital offenses we must assume that many of those who were put to death were also innocent of the crime. That is the main reason I think they should get rid of the death penalty - even if monsters must be allowed to live in a cage until they die. And, quite frankly - by the number of those monsters who know they are facing a long incarceration and force the cops to kill them or kill themselves, it must not be the hotel stay as you seem to think it is.

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    Post by wants2laugh Sat Nov 10, 2012 1:28 pm

    I'm torn. I have a brother in law who was convicted of triple murder and the death penalty was tossed around at sentencing. Our family literally had to plead for his life. The f'ed up thing about it is that he was WITH us when it happened, and we had it on VIDEO! It was my sister's bday and he cooked the dinner for it. We all went on the stand, my grandparents and immediate family to authenticate the video... yet he was still sentenced to triple life for murder.

    That was 1986... he is still in jail. I'm NOT saying that he didnt do it (I have no idea what the man could have done when i wasnt around)... I'm saying that I KNOW he did not do it when the prosecutor said he did. Since the timeline was messed up, he should have gotten off... but 3 men who testified that they killed the men received 7 yrs for manslaughter in exchange for their testimony and claimed my BIL "forced" them to do it.

    So in this case, do i want the death penalty? when the only evidence is truly based on eyewitness testimony of admitted killers? NO. But if someone like Gacy is caught with bodies under his floorboards... or Dahmer with body parts all around the house--- HELL YEAH. I would rather have them killed than risk an innocent getting abused, killed, or eaten.

    I clapped when Ted Bundy got the chair... "nah nah... nah nah nah naaaahhh... Ted Bundy... go FRY"
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    Post by Supernova Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:04 pm

    wants2laugh wrote:I'm torn. I have a brother in law who was convicted of triple murder and the death penalty was tossed around at sentencing. Our family literally had to plead for his life. The f'ed up thing about it is that he was WITH us when it happened, and we had it on VIDEO! It was my sister's bday and he cooked the dinner for it. We all went on the stand, my grandparents and immediate family to authenticate the video... yet he was still sentenced to triple life for murder.

    That was 1986... he is still in jail. I'm NOT saying that he didnt do it (I have no idea what the man could have done when i wasnt around)... I'm saying that I KNOW he did not do it when the prosecutor said he did. Since the timeline was messed up, he should have gotten off... but 3 men who testified that they killed the men received 7 yrs for manslaughter in exchange for their testimony and claimed my BIL "forced" them to do it.

    So in this case, do i want the death penalty? when the only evidence is truly based on eyewitness testimony of admitted killers? NO. But if someone like Gacy is caught with bodies under his floorboards... or Dahmer with body parts all around the house--- HELL YEAH. I would rather have them killed than risk an innocent getting abused, killed, or eaten.

    I clapped when Ted Bundy got the chair... "nah nah... nah nah nah naaaahhh... Ted Bundy... go FRY"


    See, now a case like that, when you have the person in question ON TAPE at the time of the murder NOT at the murder, then no, that shouldn't have even been able to get a conviction. But yes as you pointed out, and Bundy and Gacy were a long time ago but even in recent years, there was story after story after story on the news of a dozen women's bodies found under men's homes, THESE are the people that SHOULD fry, we're not usually talking about a case of one murder and MAYBE he did it MAYBE he didn't, maybe this, maybe that, the death penalty is not a one size fits all thing and it doesn't apply to every murder case, nor should it since the details and circumstances are always different.

    Each case needs to be analyzed individually to decide is this person so psychotic, so cold blooded, so evil, that they cannot ever be released and should never have access to another potential victim?
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    Post by wants2laugh Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:10 pm

    True. But the whole problem is the "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt". If a man is convicted, then it is "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt". That means "he did it".

    My BIL is just as guilty as Bundy or Gacy LEGALLY.. therefore there is no distinction.
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    Post by Supernova Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:13 pm

    wants2laugh wrote:True. But the whole problem is the "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt". If a man is convicted, then it is "guilty beyond a reasonable doubt". That means "he did it".

    My BIL is just as guilty as Bundy or Gacy LEGALLY.. therefore there is no distinction.

    Except everybody and his brother knows what a joke that 'beyond a reasonable doubt' is, just like everybody knows what a joke the law in general is, and I'm guessing that is why people get appeals in the first place instead of just being taken out behind the courthouse and shot. However, I do think there needs to be a limit as to how many appeals somebody can have, especially in today's forensic world where DNA can clear or condemn somebody so easily instead of 20-30 years ago when it wasn't available and it DID take so much longer to find the physical evidence to clear people.
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    Post by wants2laugh Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:22 pm

    yeah but even DNA is changing... some cases that used DNA years ago have been overturned because they learned new stuff about it. Science is only ever "what we know at the time". And the appeals process is messed up too. One appeal was denied because the judges said, "you should have known about this evidence before"-- but there wasnt THAT kind of technology before, so how could you know?

    The appeals process is in place to MAKE sure that you have the right guy... circumventing it increases the risk that an innocent person will be killed
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    Post by Supernova Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:27 pm

    wants2laugh wrote:yeah but even DNA is changing... some cases that used DNA years ago have been overturned because they learned new stuff about it. Science is only ever "what we know at the time". And the appeals process is messed up too. One appeal was denied because the judges said, "you should have known about this evidence before"-- but there wasnt THAT kind of technology before, so how could you know?

    The appeals process is in place to MAKE sure that you have the right guy... circumventing it increases the risk that an innocent person will be killed

    Boy that judge sounds like my dad, last spring when I went out to check on some starter plants I called to tell my mom what they had and how much they cost to decide what to get, and I got him instead and he was yelling at me because I should've known BEFORE I went out there, meaning BEFORE I knew WHAT there was or HOW MUCH it cost, what I was going to get. Exactly what is it about certain kinds of people that makes them so stupid?
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    Post by wants2laugh Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:41 pm

    smh ... idk
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    Post by Forgiveness Man Sat Nov 10, 2012 2:44 pm

    Cases like wants2laugh's are why I don't support the death penalty for every murder conviction. I don't feel it should be this widely used solution for every convicted murderer. But I do feel that taking it off the table for every case without exception is just a huge mistake.
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    Post by Supernova Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:19 pm

    Forgiveness Man wrote:Cases like wants2laugh's are why I don't support the death penalty for every murder conviction. I don't feel it should be this widely used solution for every convicted murderer. But I do feel that taking it off the table for every case without exception is just a huge mistake.

    Exactly, that's the main thing, as long as it is not a one size fits all either way, because to either make all murder convictions death penalty cases or none of them, no, it exists for a reason, it's just up to the people who work in the justice system to make sure that it's not used pointlessly or unnecessarily excessively, just like all things. Everybody doesn't go into solitary confinement, everybody doesn't go into general population, everybody doesn't get murder 1 or manslaughter 2, it's all different, and it is that way for a reason.
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    Post by Suzi Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:05 pm

    Supernova wrote:

    I guess that just depends on if you believe in Hell.
    I don't so I see the DP in some cases as the easy way out for some people. What if for instance McVeigh asked for forgiveness from god just before the needles went into his veins? Then he is off easy and gets to go to heaven. At least I was taught that all a person had to do was ask for forgiveness.
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    Post by Supernova Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:31 pm

    Suzi wrote:
    I don't so I see the DP in some cases as the easy way out for some people. What if for instance McVeigh asked for forgiveness from god just before the needles went into his veins? Then he is off easy and gets to go to heaven. At least I was taught that all a person had to do was ask for forgiveness.

    Well in order for it to mean anything, that person would have to be genuinely repentant for what they had done, and only God can know who is and who isn't. But, if He could forgive the people who killed His own son, then, no it may not seem fair, but He gave the same opportunity to everybody, that they could be forgiven anything they did in their lives so long as they asked Him to forgive them.

    Considering that God is supposed to know and feel everything that every person on the planet who ever did live and does live now, and ever will, then He knows how everybody who's lost someone to a brutal murder feels, He knows everything that everybody feels: all the hate, anger, pain, loss, betrayal, there is nothing we can feel that He doesn't know about. But He still gave everybody the same opportunity to be saved.
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    Post by Hyacinth Girl Sat Nov 10, 2012 8:36 pm

    Suzi wrote:
    I don't so I see the DP in some cases as the easy way out for some people. What if for instance McVeigh asked for forgiveness from god just before the needles went into his veins? Then he is off easy and gets to go to heaven. At least I was taught that all a person had to do was ask for forgiveness.

    And that is true--all who ask forgiveness from God, and are truly repentant, will receive it, but that doesn't mean you are exempt from reaping what you sow in God's eyes. In otherwords, yes you can be forgiven, be saved and end up in Heaven, but you may also have to pay back, make amends, accept punishment, etc., for your crimes on Earth too, even if it does mean the death penalty. That too could be what God requires of some based on their offense, but if they did indeed ask forgiveness and believe even at that last moment of life, then yes, they are also entitled to eternity and it doesn't really matter then, what happens to their Earthly body if they receive the promise of an eternal one.

    As far as my opinion on the death penalty, I have no problem with it at all. Use it as needed, and regardless of whether or not the offender repents at the end, it's still one less drain on the tax dollars for the rest of us by keeping these people alive.

    Yes, it's fine to say let them rot and suffer in jail alive, but ultimately, we're the ones who fund all that to keep them there. I say get rid of them and ease the tax burden a bit.
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    • Post n°25

    What's your opinion on the death penalty? Empty Re: What's your opinion on the death penalty?

    Post by Supernova Sat Nov 10, 2012 9:02 pm

    Hyacinth Girl wrote:

    Yes, it's fine to say let them rot and suffer in jail alive, but ultimately, we're the ones who fund all that to keep them there. I say get rid of them and ease the tax burden a bit.

    Exactly, now I'm sure for some people, life with no bills, somebody supplying them with food three times a day, a place to sleep, a roof over their heads, etc., and somebody else to pay for all of this for however long the rest of their days are, life in prison would NOT be so bad. Sure some people kill themselves after getting life sentences but I don't think it's too common.
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    • Post n°26

    What's your opinion on the death penalty? Empty Re: What's your opinion on the death penalty?

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