Student Lockers, schools' right to search

Nystyle709 wrote:No. The fourth amendment prevents illegal search and seizure. They can't do that unless they have probable cause. And schools aren't above the law.

The Supreme Court, ...decided in the 1990s, ruled that school officials don't need a warrant or probable cause, but merely a ''reasonable suspicion.'' (Gurr, 2002) Court rulings suggest that students should have no expectation of privacy in school lockers when the school district both owns and controls the lockers and has a written policy describing this ownership.

“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”

The operative phrase to bear in mind is unreasonable searches and seizures and school officials—such as principals, teachers, guidance counselors—are prohibited from conducting unreasonable searches of students’ belongings. However, they can and do if there is a reasonable suspicion that they will uncover evidence that a student has broken the law or a school rule.

RedBedroom wrote:The lockers are on school property so yes, they should. A kid should not have anything so personal in their locker that they should be afraid of revealing.

Jason B. wrote:Schools shouldn't be violating their students right to privacy just because they can, but since the lockers are school property I think they should be legally able to demand that they be open if they suspect something isn't right.

RedBedroom wrote:The lockers are on school property so yes, they should. A kid should not have anything so personal in their locker that they should be afraid of revealing.

TSJFan4Ever wrote:

Jason B. wrote:Schools shouldn't be violating their students right to privacy just because they can, but since the lockers are school property I think they should be legally able to demand that they be open if they suspect something isn't right.

RedBedroom wrote:The lockers are on school property so yes, they should. A kid should not have anything so personal in their locker that they should be afraid of revealing.

ITA with this. The lockers don't belong to the students - they belong to the school. Students borrow the lockers while they are at school. They don't own the lockers. Locker searches aren't conducted just because someone feels like it. Anyone who thinks schools go around searching lockers just for kicks must attend a really warped school because where I come from, the admin has damn good reason to search a locker. They don't search lockers just because they can and because they get a kick out of it. I supposed it would be better to respect a student's privacy and allow that student to keep drugs or weapons there and hope that they won't do anything and will just keep the illegal drugs to themselves and not share them? Wonder how parents would react if it came out that schools were letting kids keep drugs in their lockers and doing deals at school, because the admin refused to search a locker for fear of violating someone's rights.

TSJFan4Ever wrote:Students are welcome to tote their things around for the year, should they choose not to use a locker. As I said, they don't do locker searches without GOOD reason.
And they're not supposed to. But the question that was asked is "should school be allowed to search lockers RANDOMLY?". The answer is no.

In ALL of the years I've was in school and working in schools, locker searches were and are rare and only conduct when there is VERY good reason. I would be FURIOUS to learn that students were hiding drugs in their lockers, passing them out to kids, and the school let it happen for fear of searching a locker, thinking it was more important to respect that student's right than prevent drugs from being distributed. You might want your kids attended a school that does nothing to stop students from keeping drugs and weapons on their lockers but I prefer a school that focuses on the safety of ALL students, rather than the rights of those who are hiding drugs. You said that it is a violation of rights IF they don't have cause - well usually they do. This isn't some random thing that happens, unless it is different where you went to school. It's like with the police - if they have enough evidence to suspect that you are a drug dealer, they have the right to search your home. Would it bet better to respect the rights of those drug dealers and let them continuing dealing those drugs? I don't understand why you are attacking me, as I have been VERY clear that those searches are conducted ONLY when there is evidence that the student has something illegal hidden in their locker.

Oooookay.......I don't know where you are getting the idea of me attacking you because you're only reiterating the same exact thing I said.

There is a big difference between giving someone something and loaning them something. Lockers are loaned to students, not given to them. If a student damages a locker, they are responsible for the damages. if the student owned the locker, there wouldn't be a need to charge them but lockers are loaned, not bought, by students.

Nystyle709 wrote:
Then why give them lockers? Have them tote all their junk around in their bookbags. If you tell me that this is my locker for the school year, then this is MY locker for the school year. It's kinda like being an indian giver. You can't give somebody something, then take it back. I remember when I was in school, I had something for those nosy ass administrators. I would put a master lock on my locker. One with a combination. Of course, I had nothing to hide but I am very adamant about people searching or going through my shit because they feel they can or because it's on their property and they call themselves doing a random search. It is violating your rights if you don't have any reason to search someone's locker. You're going through someone's personal belongings. I don't care if the locker is school property, what's in that locker isn't. If you have reason to search, then by all means do it. But if you don't, then leave it alone.

Nystyle709 wrote:In this case, not really. The school is getting their locker back at the end of the school year. But while it is in MY possession....you have no right to go through it. Because you're right, if I fuck up the locker and damage it, I'm paying for it. You're giving me full resposibility of it then huh? If your friend 'loaned' you her purse to go out Saturday night and she's going with you, would you be absolutely okay with her going through the purse while you went to the bathroom just because it's technically hers? Don't think so.

TSJFan4Ever wrote:

Nystyle709 wrote:In this case, not really. The school is getting their locker back at the end of the school year. But while it is in MY possession....you have no right to go through it. Because you're right, if I fuck up the locker and damage it, I'm paying for it. You're giving me full resposibility of it then huh? If your friend 'loaned' you her purse to go out Saturday night and she's going with you, would you be absolutely okay with her going through the purse while you went to the bathroom just because it's technically hers? Don't think so.

If you are hiding drugs in your locker and the school becomes aware of it, the school has EVERY right to protect the other students and search your locker. If you have stolen property in your locker the school has the right to return that property to the students you stole from. I'm not sure what part of that you're not understanding. NEVER have I said that I support random locker searches.

I never said you did. LMAO! But that was the original freaking question! Can you read? I'm not sure what part YOU are not understanding. Let me refresh your memory:

Chris wrote:Do schools have the right to search students’ lockers randomly?

Jeez Louise. I hope I don't have to define randomly for you, lol.


I have continually stated that I am fine with locker searches WHEN there is evidence. You must come from a really tough area is random locker searches were a part of your school experience. I can recall only one or two locker searches when I was in high school and both times, it was because there was strong evidence that a student had illegal drugs and stolen property. Both searches proved accurate, and drugs were found in one case and drugs and stolen property in the other case. In all of the high schools I have been at, locker searches are VERY rare and only conducted with strong evidence, not because some person gets off on it. You seem to be assuming that I am talking about random locker searches but I have CONTINUALLY stated that I support searches when there is evidence of something amiss.

Nystyle709 wrote:No. The fourth amendment prevents illegal search and seizure. They can't do that unless they have probable cause. And schools aren't above the law.

Isn't that what I JUST said? You are rambling about absolutely NOTHING. You are saying the exact the damn thing that I'm agreeing with. LMAO!

Your question makes no sense about the purse, unless you are assuming that I am hiding something illegal in there and my friend is searching it to see if I'm hiding drugs or stolen goods. If I loan you my purse and you use it to hide drugs and I find out, you better believe I'll search that purse and confront you about illegal drugs or stolen goods. I don't want to be held responsible because you've chosen to hide illegal goods in that purse.

Yes it does because I am NOT assuming you have anything illegal. Fuck it being illegal. I see you haven't answered the question, or maybe you didn't understand it. Would you like your friend to go through a purse, with your belongings, that she loaned you solely based on the fact that it's still hers? Now answer the question. How the hell are you gonna know if something is in there illegally, lol, if you don't go through it?

Clearly we're not going to agree, as you keep coming back to something that I am not talking about - random locker searches with NO evidence
But that was the topic dear.
- and ignoring what I am saying about supporting locker searches WHEN there is evidence of wrongdoing, so we'll just have to agree to disagree. I'm not wasting any more time repeating myself.

Yeah, you're wasting a lot of time reiterating the same thing I said. Especially when that wasn't even the topic. We weren't talking about search lockers when you have a reason to. We were talking about searching lockers when you DON'T. You totally have no wins with this. We were discussing something you weren't and I'm just going to chalk it up to you misunderstanding what the original topic was all about.