| Right to die/mercy killing | |
|
+5AtownPeep CeCe Forgiveness Man Chris JM130ELM 9 posters |
Author | Message |
---|
JM130ELM …is Necessary.
Join date : 2010-02-02 Location : Chicago Posts : 661 Rep : 32
| Subject: Right to die/mercy killing Sat Jul 31, 2010 11:53 pm | |
| Alright folks I got one... Somebody is terminally ill, in excruciating pain (or not, but terminal nonetheless) and wants to die by medical euthanasia. You know what my question is, should doctors be allowed to grant them their wish to die? | |
|
| |
Chris Chamber Admin.
Join date : 2010-01-30 Location : Oak Park, Michigan Posts : 23201 Rep : 330
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Sun Aug 01, 2010 8:59 am | |
| | |
|
| |
Forgiveness Man …is a Chamber Royal.
Join date : 2010-06-25 Location : Chilling on your sofa Posts : 6657 Rep : 153
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:01 am | |
| I don't agree with right to die cases cause a lot of "terminal" cases aren't so terminal. And a lot of so-called "mercykills" are more about ending the FAMILY'S misery as opposed to the actual patient's. | |
|
| |
CeCe …is a Chamber DEITY.
Join date : 2010-06-30 Posts : 11962 Rep : 326
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:21 pm | |
| - JM130ELM wrote:
- Alright folks I got one...
Somebody is terminally ill, in excruciating pain (or not, but terminal nonetheless) and wants to die by medical euthanasia. You know what my question is, should doctors be allowed to grant them their wish to die? Without question. I believe we all hold the title to our own lives. It's our choice. | |
|
| |
AtownPeep …is a Power Member.
Join date : 2010-01-31 Location : Atlanta, GA Posts : 1867 Rep : 39
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:02 am | |
| - Forgiveness_Man wrote:
- I don't agree with right to die cases cause a lot of "terminal" cases aren't so terminal. And a lot of so-called "mercykills" are more about ending the FAMILY'S misery as opposed to the actual patient's.
If they've been diagnosed as terminal, how are they not? No doctor is going to euthanize a terminally ill patient and conscious on the behest of anyone except the patient themselves. | |
|
| |
Forgiveness Man …is a Chamber Royal.
Join date : 2010-06-25 Location : Chilling on your sofa Posts : 6657 Rep : 153
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:10 am | |
| - AtownPeep wrote:
- If they've been diagnosed as terminal, how are they not? No doctor is going to euthanize a terminally ill patient and conscious on the behest of anyone except the patient themselves.
I think some would, hence why I don't trust them. IMO, life is always sacred and while I agree with making somebody more comfortable, I do not agree with suicide under the guise of mercy. It makes it too easy to justify it under other means. All suicides are in a sense, "mercy kills." I don't feel "mercy" excuses it. Make them comfortable but don't kill em. | |
|
| |
AtownPeep …is a Power Member.
Join date : 2010-01-31 Location : Atlanta, GA Posts : 1867 Rep : 39
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Mon Aug 02, 2010 8:17 am | |
| Suppose they can't be made comfortable because their illness is that debilitating. Some people are so gravely ill that getting through a single day hinges on torture. I don't understand why they should continue having to live in total agony until their bodies just stop - especially if they are begging to be put out of their misery. Do you also disagree with putting a dog that's been hit by a car to sleep too, despite the obvious misery it's in and the fact it won't recover? Sometimes letting painfully living things die is the humane thing to do. | |
|
| |
Nystyle709 ...is a 20G Chamber DIETY.
Join date : 2010-03-16 Location : New York Posts : 27030 Rep : 339
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:44 pm | |
| - Forgiveness_Man wrote:
I think some would, hence why I don't trust them. LOL. IMO, life is always sacred and while I agree with making somebody more comfortable, I do not agree with suicide under the guise of mercy. It makes it too easy to justify it under other means. All suicides are in a sense, "mercy kills." I don't feel "mercy" excuses it. Make them comfortable but don't kill em. Ever seen someone die from terminal cancer? I have. It's PAINFUL......both for the patient (literally) and the family. And there is no making them comfortable. Hospice tries and in some ways, it works, but if the person doesn't want to continue to suffer.....why let them? | |
|
| |
Forgiveness Man …is a Chamber Royal.
Join date : 2010-06-25 Location : Chilling on your sofa Posts : 6657 Rep : 153
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Mon Aug 02, 2010 5:19 pm | |
| - Nystyle709 wrote:
- IMO, life is always sacred and while I agree with making somebody more comfortable, I do not agree with suicide under the guise of mercy. It makes it too easy to justify it under other means. All suicides are in a sense, "mercy kills." I don't feel "mercy" excuses it. Make them comfortable but don't kill em.
Ever seen someone die from terminal cancer? I have. It's PAINFUL......both for the patient (literally) and the family. And there is no making them comfortable. Hospice tries and in some ways, it works, but if the person doesn't want to continue to suffer.....why let them?[/quote] As I said, murder under the guise of mercy just doesn't float for me. Once it's okay to kill people under that guise, ANYTHING can be made a "mercy" kill if people spin it well enough. Yes, sometimes you can't make somebody comfortable. That doesn't mean you should kill them. It seems to me people's answer to any kind of problem is to kill people anymore. | |
|
| |
CeCe …is a Chamber DEITY.
Join date : 2010-06-30 Posts : 11962 Rep : 326
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:36 pm | |
| - Forgiveness_Man wrote:
As I said, murder under the guise of mercy just doesn't float for me. Once it's okay to kill people under that guise, ANYTHING can be made a "mercy" kill if people spin it well enough.
Yes, sometimes you can't make somebody comfortable. That doesn't mean you should kill them. It seems to me people's answer to any kind of problem is to kill people anymore. So even if the person is terminal & in excruciating pain, & recognizing that it sometimes isn't possible to make them comfortable it's your belief that they should suffer? What's the logical reason behind that? | |
|
| |
Forgiveness Man …is a Chamber Royal.
Join date : 2010-06-25 Location : Chilling on your sofa Posts : 6657 Rep : 153
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Mon Aug 02, 2010 6:45 pm | |
| - CeCe wrote:
- So even if the person is terminal & in excruciating pain, & recognizing that it sometimes isn't possible to make them comfortable it's your belief that they should suffer? What's the logical reason behind that?
It's my belief that killing to eliminate suffering isn't the answer. I believe in taking every reasonable effort to aid their suffering, but I don't support just outright murdering people under the guise of relieving suffering. Plus, it opens a door that you have a lot of trouble closing again. And besides, I think a lot of times, mercy kills are less about relieving the patient's suffering and more about other things. | |
|
| |
Marc™ …is a Chamber DEITY.
Join date : 2010-01-30 Location : Michigan Posts : 12006 Rep : 212
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:21 pm | |
| - Forgiveness_Man wrote:
- It's my belief that killing to eliminate suffering isn't the answer. I believe in taking every reasonable effort to aid their suffering, but I don't support just outright murdering people under the guise of relieving suffering. Plus, it opens a door that you have a lot of trouble closing again. And besides, I think a lot of times, mercy kills are less about relieving the patient's suffering and more about other things.
So if someone who is lying in bed, dying an excruciating death and begging to be put out of their misery, they shouldn't be. Assisted suicide of terminally ill patients isn't "murder" if the dying party is asking for their pained life to be terminated. | |
|
| |
Forgiveness Man …is a Chamber Royal.
Join date : 2010-06-25 Location : Chilling on your sofa Posts : 6657 Rep : 153
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:32 pm | |
| - Marc wrote:
- So if someone who is lying in bed, dying an excruciating death and begging to be put out of their misery, they shouldn't be.
Assisted suicide of terminally ill patients isn't "murder" if the dying party is asking for their pained life to be terminated. How do you propose we do it, shoot them? Stab them? Flood their body with drugs? How do you propose we kill them? If a depressed teen hands you a knife and asks you to kill her because she hates her life she much, is it murder to do it? Besides, what if the terminally ill patient ISN'T begging for it, which is often the case when they are "mercy" killed. IMO, the idea of mercy killing is an illusion to help the people around the person ease their own pain. | |
|
| |
CeCe …is a Chamber DEITY.
Join date : 2010-06-30 Posts : 11962 Rep : 326
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:34 pm | |
| - Forgiveness_Man wrote:
- It's my belief that killing to eliminate suffering isn't the answer. I believe in taking every reasonable effort to aid their suffering, but I don't support just outright murdering people under the guise of relieving suffering. Plus, it opens a door that you have a lot of trouble closing again. And besides, I think a lot of times, mercy kills are less about relieving the patient's suffering and more about other things.
The OP's question was about the wishes of the individual who wishes to end their suffering. This has nothing to do with any other people or opening doors or any other factors. This is the persons own wish for their life. There does come a point with some illnesses where all a person has is pain & agony. Meds don't even always work. So are you saying that a person doesn't even have a right to decide for themselves what they want for their own life? And who has the right to over rule them? To force someone to suffer through that kind of pain is barbaric, even more so when it's based in some imaginary possibility. | |
|
| |
Forgiveness Man …is a Chamber Royal.
Join date : 2010-06-25 Location : Chilling on your sofa Posts : 6657 Rep : 153
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:38 pm | |
| - CeCe wrote:
- The OP's question was about the wishes of the individual who wishes to end their suffering. This has nothing to do with any other people or opening doors or any other factors. This is the persons own wish for their life. There does come a point with some illnesses where all a person has is pain & agony. Meds don't even always work. So are you saying that a person doesn't even have a right to decide for themselves what they want for their own life? And who has the right to over rule them? To force someone to suffer through that kind of pain is barbaric, even more so when it's based in some imaginary possibility.
So then you say that ANYBODY should have the right to decide for themselves when their life should end, and that people should help them? Your logic applies to everybody. Assisted suicide is wrong. If double effect causes death, then so be it, but directly intending the death is murder plain and simple. IMO, the only thing barbaric is using something like mercy as a guise to end human life. Again, if drugs don't work, how do we propose we kill them? Bullet to the head? Mercy killing is an illusion. It's one thing to withhold extraordinary measures of prolonging life. It's another to actively end life. The OP asked a question, I answered. I don't feel mercy is a justified excuse to kill. | |
|
| |
Marc™ …is a Chamber DEITY.
Join date : 2010-01-30 Location : Michigan Posts : 12006 Rep : 212
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Mon Aug 02, 2010 9:48 pm | |
| - Forgiveness_Man wrote:
- How do you propose we do it, shoot them? Stab them? Flood their body with drugs? How do you propose we kill them?
By either turning off their machine, or injecting them with a drug that will end their lives. Suggesting that they be shot or stabbed was you trying to be crass for the sake of exaggerating your stance. - Quote :
- If a depressed teen hands you a knife and asks you to kill her because she hates her life she much, is it murder to do it?
A depressed teen isn't terminally ill... - Quote :
- Besides, what if the terminally ill patient ISN'T begging for it
Well then they don't get factored into this equation. The OP specifically noted that the patient was terminal....that they WANT to end their lives....and have ASKED for assistance from their physicians in the matter. Nobody said anything about taking out someone who isn't interested in dying and wants to live until their bodies naturally give out....we're talking about suffering patients who have made it clear that death is their wish. | |
|
| |
femme fatale …is a Power Member.
Join date : 2010-06-30 Posts : 1160 Rep : 46
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:49 pm | |
| If a terminally ill cancer patient wants to die, then I think that they should be able to give legal authorization to their doctor to end their life. No one is suggesting that this option be forced on anyone, this is 100% by choice of the stricken. | |
|
| |
Forgiveness Man …is a Chamber Royal.
Join date : 2010-06-25 Location : Chilling on your sofa Posts : 6657 Rep : 153
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Tue Aug 03, 2010 8:16 am | |
| - Marc wrote:
- By either turning off their machine, or injecting them with a drug that will end their lives. Suggesting that they be shot or stabbed was you trying to be crass for the sake of exaggerating your stance.
A depressed teen isn't terminally ill...
Well then they don't get factored into this equation. The OP specifically noted that the patient was terminal....that they WANT to end their lives....and have ASKED for assistance from their physicians in the matter. Nobody said anything about taking out someone who isn't interested in dying and wants to live until their bodies naturally give out....we're talking about suffering patients who have made it clear that death is their wish. Well, turning off their machine, as we've seen, doesn't always guarantee to end their suffering. Which machine do we turn off? Breathing machine? Okay, I am for that if they want it actually, it is extraordinary measures. But what about a feeding tube? We turn that off too? Newsflash, starving to death is only going to add to their pain. And as somebody pointed out, gasping for air can be a bad way to goo too. Now, as for the drug, we gotta drug them to death? Ah, a bit more humane, putting them to sleep like a dog. But again, drugs still aren't exactly the best way to go. Killing under the guise of mercy isn't noble. So? They are still in pain. Once it's okay to kill one group of people solely because they want to die, it's okay to do it to another. Once it's okay to mercykill the terminal, maybe it's okay to mercykill the non-terminal under the guise of mercy as well. I know exactly the arguments they'd use. But, a lot of times, people act on their desires to end someone's life but use the best interest of the person to defend it. All too often, it isn't the deceased who asks for it. And that's the dark little secret those defenders won't tell you, but as long as they claim the deceased wanted it, then they get away with it. Frankly, again, does somebody asking you to kill them have a right to be killed? Again, I think not. Suicide is wrong, and everyone who does it has a reason usually stemming from ending unbearable pain. | |
|
| |
Marc™ …is a Chamber DEITY.
Join date : 2010-01-30 Location : Michigan Posts : 12006 Rep : 212
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:39 pm | |
| - Forgiveness_Man wrote:
- Well, turning off their machine, as we've seen, doesn't always guarantee to end their suffering. Which machine do we turn off? Breathing machine? Okay, I am for that if they want it actually, it is extraordinary measures. But what about a feeding tube? We turn that off too? Newsflash, starving to death is only going to add to their pain. And as somebody pointed out, gasping for air can be a bad way to goo too. Now, as for the drug, we gotta drug them to death? Ah, a bit more humane, putting them to sleep like a dog. But again, drugs still aren't exactly the best way to go. Killing under the guise of mercy isn't noble.
So? They are still in pain. Once it's okay to kill one group of people solely because they want to die, it's okay to do it to another. Once it's okay to mercykill the terminal, maybe it's okay to mercykill the non-terminal under the guise of mercy as well. I know exactly the arguments they'd use.
But, a lot of times, people act on their desires to end someone's life but use the best interest of the person to defend it. All too often, it isn't the deceased who asks for it. And that's the dark little secret those defenders won't tell you, but as long as they claim the deceased wanted it, then they get away with it. Frankly, again, does somebody asking you to kill them have a right to be killed? Again, I think not. Suicide is wrong, and everyone who does it has a reason usually stemming from ending unbearable pain. Man, it's not a "so." Someone being terminally ill (with certain death looming) and living on a day to day basis in agonizing physical pain that can't be helped is in no way comparable to a depressed teenager....who dim emotions are likely the result of out of whack hormones. The depressed/suicidal teenager can be helped to overcome their affliction. The terminal cancer patient cannot. | |
|
| |
Forgiveness Man …is a Chamber Royal.
Join date : 2010-06-25 Location : Chilling on your sofa Posts : 6657 Rep : 153
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Sun Aug 08, 2010 8:32 am | |
| - Marc wrote:
- Man, it's not a "so." Someone being terminally ill (with certain death looming) and living on a day to day basis in agonizing physical pain that can't be helped is in no way comparable to a depressed teenager....who dim emotions are likely the result of out of whack hormones. The depressed/suicidal teenager can be helped to overcome their affliction. The terminal cancer patient cannot.
Who says they can be helped? Once you open the door, it's not far until you arrive at them just being permanently messed up. And again, how do we propose to kill them? Taking them off machines often adds to their pain(gasping for every breath, slowly dehydrating and starving them). Or do we drug them to death?(I thought drugs don't do anything for them) The suicidal teen and the terminal patient are not that different once you rationalize killing them. If the terminal patient's pain treatment has a double effect of escalating death, that is one thing, but intending death is murder plain and simple, and good intentions don't change that. It seems people want to use good intentions to justify killing, but once it comes to how you actually kill somebody, it's hard to avoid the fact that if they are conscious, explaining HOW to kill them just comes up short. Some people like to mercy kill with a gun, should we shoot terminal patients? Who gets to play God today? | |
|
| |
TexasLady …is a Newbie.
Join date : 2010-08-03 Location : Texas Posts : 78 Rep : 0
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:03 pm | |
| I think they should be able to die if that is their wish and there is no hope for recovery. They have a shot that can stop the heart and there will be no pain. There is no reason for a person to have to endure long periods of pain when there is no hope. Do you think a person with liver cancer that is on his death bed and suffering should be made to suffer just a few more days. No, if they want not to suffer. End it for them. | |
|
| |
Forgiveness Man …is a Chamber Royal.
Join date : 2010-06-25 Location : Chilling on your sofa Posts : 6657 Rep : 153
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing Sun Aug 08, 2010 6:56 pm | |
| ^^^^What if there is hope of recovery but they are in so much pain that they don't want to take it? | |
|
| |
Sponsored content
| Subject: Re: Right to die/mercy killing | |
| |
|
| |
| Right to die/mercy killing | |
|