CeCe wrote:

His story is exactly why this subject is so important. This is repeated everyday for people who won't be allowed to die but ARE being forced to live. The person who is having to live it is the one who should be permitted to make the decision. I appreciate his father wants to cling to some kind of hope. But he isn't the one who is experiencing this kind of "life". Forcing someone into this kind of existence is cruel.

Give it a rest Shale. You're the one posting to antagonize. You can't quote me without taking juvenile cheap shots. You boast about your world experience yet can't discuss something without acting like you're in a schoolyard. And comparing me to Muslim extremists cause I don't buy your excuses for suicide? Oh please.

My views are not BS and there is plenty of rationale; you just don't see any rationale beside your own. I understand the ideas you speak of; I just feel that there is no good excuse for suicide. One excuse is ultimately as good as another in the end.

Chris wrote:

Here's an interesting news piece related to the topic.

That story was so sad. I just don't understand refusing a terminally ill persons who is fading fast and whose everyday living is a painful struggle the right to die. To me it's heartless and selfish.

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

^^^^That's too particular a case to ever be successfully implemented. We can't discriminate.

No...I was being very general in my scenario. It completely negates your argument that if we allow legally assisted suicide for one small group then everyone should or would be allowed to do the same. And we already discriminate. It wasn’t all that long ago that the law didn’t make a distinction between the different degrees of murder that we do now. 1st and 2nd degree murder, manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter. Used to be if you killed someone under any circumstance, there was a good chance you would hang for it. But now the government (the same government who’s interference you’ve so often gone on record as being against) discriminates, i.e. makes the distinction that not everyone deserves to be executed because they caused the death of someone else. But you’re still willing to give that same government the power to end someone’s life for it’s reasons but unwilling to concede that same power to an individual concerning their own death.

alan smithee wrote:

No...I was being very general in my scenario. It completely negates your argument that if we allow legally assisted suicide for one small group then everyone should or would be allowed to do the same. And we already discriminate. It wasn’t all that long ago that the law didn’t make a distinction between the different degrees of murder that we do now. 1st and 2nd degree murder, manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter. Used to be if you killed someone under any circumstance, there was a good chance you would hang for it. But now the government (the same government who’s interference you’ve so often gone on record as being against) discriminates, i.e. makes the distinction that not everyone deserves to be executed because they caused the death of someone else. But you’re still willing to give that same government the power to end someone’s life for it’s reasons but unwilling to concede that same power to an individual concerning their own death.

It doesn't negate anything. Suicide is suicide.

I never said government should stop existing. So don't act like I'm anti-government. So that pretty much negates your entire argument about me.

The differences between degrees of murder is largely intent. The intent to kill yourself is pretty much first degree in all cases regardless of what excuse you use for it. The manslaughter equivalent to suicide would be killing yourself by doing something stupid. Plenty of people do that these days.

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

It doesn't negate anything. Suicide is suicide.

I never said government should stop existing. So don't act like I'm anti-government. So that pretty much negates your entire argument about me.

The differences between degrees of murder is largely intent. The intent to kill yourself is pretty much first degree in all cases regardless of what excuse you use for it. The manslaughter equivalent to suicide would be killing yourself by doing something stupid. Plenty of people do that these days.

"I never said government should stop existing. So don't act like I'm anti-government."

All I said was that you were on record of being against government interference. Big difference.

Quote :

I font feel it is an obligation, or at the very least, not one government needs to enforce. I am against big government, and that includes government mandating you go onto the mlitary or jailtime. On principle, I cannot support it.

Me being so against big government, it should come as no surprise that I am vehemently against the draft.

Hell no! Nobody should be told they can only have one kid, especially not by government. It's a bad policy and it can only lead to self-destruction. Overpopulation is a myth used to force people to conform to certain ways. If you think the population is too big, don't have kids. Butt out of other people's lives.

First of all, those are governments. Religion is only one of many factors that influence a government. All your examples do is reinforce my claims about GOVERNMENT. Religion itself cannot implement policies, governments can. Governments may be influenced by a particular religion but it isn't the religion itself implementing policies. You seem to be taking victory in things never even in this debate it seems.

"It doesn't negate anything. Suicide is suicide."

You're the one who used the argument that if one can do it, everyone can do it. I stated a clear and rational rebuttal why that is not so. Hence the negation on those grounds.

^^^^I never said government has no right to ever interfere in anything whatsoever. I merely believe that government has a place.

You didn't really rebut anything at all though.

^^Everything I wrote is based on facts.

alan smithee wrote:

^^Everything I wrote is based on facts.

As is everything I wrote.

Suicide is suicide.

I'm going slightly off topic now.

Quote :

I just feel that there is no good excuse for suicide.

In all cases? What about the soldier who throws himself on a live grenade to save his comrades?

alan smithee wrote:

I'm going slightly off topic now.



In all cases? What about the soldier who throws himself on a live grenade to save his comrades?

If you wanna play the case by case game of what is or is not suicide, we could go there. It'd take all day.

Of course it's suicide. It's just more noble by your standards.

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

As is everything I wrote.

No. I've clearly demonstrated that isn't true.

alan smithee wrote:

No. I've clearly demonstrated that isn't true.

lol Sorry, no you haven't. You seem to misinterpret everything I say anyway so you cannot possibly demonstrate anything other than disagreement based on that alone.

And no, your situation is not suicide. Suicide requires intent. But the case by case basis is gonna get boring really fast.

Since your posts have basically devolved into "I said, You said," I think it's easy to see that the mine is empty.....

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

Since your posts have basically devolved into "I said, You said," I think it's easy to see that the mine is empty.....

You're right. It does get boring when you make statements about things that I say that I can prove in black and white aren't true while at the same time denying things that you've said that are also in black and white. I'm going to try and make this my last comment on this subject by saying I hope neither you or anyone you care about is faced with the prospect of a painful and lingering death.

alan smithee wrote:

You're right. It does get boring when you make statements about things that I say that I can prove in black and white aren't true while at the same time denying things that you've said that are also in black and white. I'm going to try and make this my last comment on this subject by saying I hope neither you or anyone you care about is faced with the prospect of a painful and lingering death.

I feel your frustration Alan - Been there with posers on here who refuse to cite facts when making outrageous statements off the wall. I made my last comment to such non-debaters under much the same circumstance and from now on choose to just ignore ignorance.

Makes for a much better experience conversing with ppl who know how to offer substantial opinions based on fact.

Not reading through all the responses (I can pretty much guess how the tone of the thread wound up going) I will say that I totally support a terminally ill, advanced stages patient being taken off their machines at their request. If they are losing their battle and it's a painful struggle for them to survive each day, and they are asking to be allowed to die, then how in good consciousness can you look at them and tell them "no"?