This is usually a heated subject at other boards but I was curious to see how this is seen here. What's your take on racial minorities like black, hispanic & middle eastern being sometimes more homophobic percentage wise than whites. Should being minorities themselves inspire more understanding to what gays and lesbians go through?

Unless they are gay themselves,how would they understand what gays and lesbians go through? Whites can be the biggest bigots against gays in the world!

Ideally, anyone who has ever had to deal with bigotry based on what they inherently are should be compelled to empathize with the personal struggles of another person who is merely trying to survive in their own situation. However, that is idealistic. Just because someone has had their own plight doesn't automatically make them closer to Jesus in terms of understanding and being non-judgmental towards what they don't understand or are not used to.

On the one hand, sure, the expectation of open-mindedness makes idealistic sense: "if you've been kicked or snubbed, then why would you want to kick or snub someone else?" On the other hand, that expectation can also be very condescending and presumptuous; it's like "Who are you to tell me how I should see the world?"

I won't deny that there is a problem with homophobia in the black community, but at the same time I think the general perception of it tends to get over-exaggerated.

stonestatic wrote:

Should being minorities themselves inspire more understanding to what gays and lesbians go through?

No more than being Jewish should make you understand what women go through etc., etc. People relate to each other on a personal level, not a blanket one. If someone doesn't know any gay people personally in this straight society, then chances are theyre not gonna relate and be extra accepting. Even if they face their own discrimination.

You can hide being gay. You can't hide being black, Hispanic, Middle Eastern. I think they need to be quiet.

stonestatic wrote:

This is usually a heated subject at other boards but I was curious to see how this is seen here. What's your take on racial minorities like black, hispanic & middle eastern being sometimes more homophobic percentage wise than whites. Should being minorities themselves inspire more understanding to what gays and lesbians go through?

Blacks, Hispanics and Middle Easterners put together don't have the same political power in the US that Whites do. Whenever there is a bill enacted to strip away rights and protections for gays, it's usually White lawmakers behind it. Even if ethnic minorites do have a higher proportion of homophobic attitudes in general than Whites, the bottom line is that Whites have the #'s to make the difference. So what's the bigger problem here? Negative ATTITUDES of certain racial and ethnic groups or the actual POWER that "a" group has to keep gays 2nd class citizens?

I don't know about Hispanics and Middle-Easterners, but there absolutely IS a disproportionately high amount of homophobic attitudes within the Black community…based on and/or fueled by religion, tradition and probably sexism too, with male/female gender roles being conscience. That cannot be denied, and if I had to guess, that probably is the case with most "ethnic" minorities struggle to accept homosexuality (ethnic communities in general cling more to tradition than white society does.) How to combat homophobia in the Black community would be for more Black (Hispanics and Middle-Easterners in their respective communities as well) gays/lesbians/bisexuals coming out of the closet, standing up and demanding to be counted. It really is a "family" issue that has to be dealt with within the community.

I can tell you what won't change anything, and what has a counter-effect, is mainstream (i.e. "White") society posturing and finger wagging about the homophobia that they perceive to exist amongst racial and ethnic minorities. Like Chris said, that comes off as very patronizing, puts people on a defensive, and probably causes them to cling even more to their criticized stances.

Nhaiyel wrote:

I don't know about Hispanics and Middle-Easterners, but there absolutely IS a disproportionately high amount of homophobic attitudes within the Black community…based on and/or fueled by religion, tradition and probably sexism too, with male/female gender roles being conscience. That cannot be denied, and if I had to guess, that probably is the case with most "ethnic" minorities struggle to accept homosexuality (ethnic communities in general cling more to tradition than white society does.) How to combat homophobia in the Black community would be for more Black (Hispanics and Middle-Easterners in their respective communities as well) gays/lesbians/bisexuals coming out of the closet, standing up and demanding to be counted. It really is a "family" issue that has to be dealt with within the community.

I can tell you what won't change anything, and what has a counter-effect, is mainstream (i.e. "White") society posturing and finger wagging about the homophobia that they perceive to exist amongst racial and ethnic minorities. Like Chris said, that comes off as very patronizing, puts people on a defensive, and probably causes them to cling even more to their criticized stances.

Bingo.

I just don't see the point of hate, no matter who it's from and why. As a people we are always so hostilely suspicious of things that aren't familiar. I think Nhaiyel is onto something tho with the point she made about ethnic minorities having more of a "group" mentality when it comes to tradition. I've known quite a few black people who were gay-friendly on an individual level. The homophobia with us is more on a community level.

stonestatic wrote:

This is usually a heated subject at other boards but I was curious to see how this is seen here. What's your take on racial minorities like black, hispanic & middle eastern being sometimes more homophobic percentage wise than whites. Should being minorities themselves inspire more understanding to what gays and lesbians go through?

That hasn't really been my experience. I've often found that whites tend to be more homophobic than most of the minorities I know. Of course I'm in the military so a lot of people are homophobic. But generally the most homophobic people also tend to be somewhat racist and sexist too.

I should say folks that I wasn't trying to imply that whites aren't homophobic and don't have more power to legislate bigotry. But it's been said even in this thread that ethnic cultures traditionally have a higher value placed on traditional masculinity, male pride, gender roles and religion/conservatism. All of which stands to heighten homophobia. Again I wasn't saying that it wasn't a problem among whites, I was just asking if demographics that have had to deal with a history INSTITUTIONALIZED bigotry should be more sympathetic to other communities dealing with it now and not be so quick to condemn. I wasn't comparing POWER to ATTITUDE. But I don't think the latter should be dismissed because of the former.

JMO.

Thanks all for the feedback!

stonestatic wrote:

I should say folks that I wasn't trying to imply that whites aren't homophobic and don't have more power to legislate bigotry. But it's been said even in this thread that ethnic cultures traditionally have a higher value placed on traditional masculinity, male pride, gender roles and religion/conservatism. All of which stands to have a heightened homophobia. Again I wasn't saying that it wasn't a problem among whites, I was just asking if demographics that have had to deal with a history INSTITUTIONALIZED bigotry should be more sympathetic to other communities dealing with it now. I wasn't comparing POWER to ATTITUDE. But I don't think the latter should be dismissed because of the former.

JMO.

Thanks all for the feedback!

It's a difficult question for me to answer because I don't think that ANYONE is justified in being homophobic, racist, sexist or whatever and I think it's stupid for anyone to be one of those things. Having said that, yes I do think that someone who's had to suffer some type of descrimination themselves is a bigger hypocrite for subjecting their own prejudices onto a different minority. A black person who is homophobic for instance has absolutely no right to suggest that someone else should not be racist against blacks because they are uncomfortable around them.

I wouldn't go so far as to say "hypocritical," but instead more human. Some need to understand that just because two people both had abusive fathers growing up doesn't make them kindred spirits, who understand each others lives and can automatically relate to, or both with, their deep, personal struggles. When it comes to the issue of homophobia in the black community, since black gays/lesbians/bisexuals/transgenders are the one who are most affected by it, it is they who have to engage the overall community. By and large, the gay community and the black community are so disconnected from each other that the neither is directly affected by the other sides bigoted attitudes or prejudices. Someone outside the black community condescending the problem, and deeming the audacity of it all hypocritical is not going to inspire any kind of movement toward enlightenment or progress.

Nhaiyel wrote:

I wouldn't go so far as to say "hypocritical," but instead more human. Some need to understand that just because two people both had abusive fathers growing up doesn't make them kindred spirits, who understand each others lives and can automatically relate to, or both with, their deep, personal struggles. When it comes to the issue of homophobia in the black community, since black gays/lesbians/bisexuals/transgenders are the one who are most affected by it, it is they who have to engage the overall community. By and large, the gay community and the black community are so disconnected from each other that the neither is directly affected by the other sides bigoted attitudes or prejudices. Someone outside the black community condescending the problem, and deeming the audacity of it all hypocritical is not going to inspire any kind of movement toward enlightenment or progress.

That is probably true.

It's more prevalent among minorities? I thought that wasn't possible.

Forgiveness_Man wrote:

It's more prevalent among minorities? I thought that wasn't possible.

I'll bite:
Why?

Marc wrote:

I'll bite:
Why?

Only white people are capable of being racist or bigoted. I thought you knew that.

Nystyle709 wrote:

You can hide being gay. You can't hide being black, Hispanic, Middle Eastern. I think they need to be quiet.

In today's world, race is a lot more malleable than you seem to think. There are people with colored skin who self-identify as white, and vice versa. President Obama's mother is Caucasian and his father is Negro. Regardless of his skin color, which is dark, what race does that make him?

And just what do you mean by "I think they need to be quiet?" Why? I should just go back in my closet, shut the door, turn out the light and accept being treated as a second class citizen? Up yours.

Nystyle709 wrote:

That would be it. You think I care if some old white person, or any other ethnic person for that matter, is racist? Racism is LEARNED, it's not innate. Basically people have their own minds to form their own views, however misinformed or ignorant their views may be. There is only a problem when there is a person in a position of power (a person who can actually stop you from getting a job, house, loan, etc) who has those ignorant views. Not everyone agrees with homosexuality. Unless someone physically harming you or stopping you from the quality of life that you're entitled to having, then that's when you should raise hell. Other than that, not everyone has to agree with what you do.

Agree with what I do? What kind of BS is that? What I "do" is none of your business, it's not your right to agree OR disagree with it!

Those who speak as you do ARE causing me harm, in the ballot boxes of America.

LVJoel wrote:

In today's world, race is a lot more malleable than you seem to think. There are people with colored skin who self-identify as white, and vice versa. President Obama's mother is Caucasian and his father is Negro. Regardless of his skin color, which is dark, what race does that make him?

Uh, Black. And?

And just what do you mean by "I think they need to be quiet?" Why? I should just go back in my closet, shut the door, turn out the light and accept being treated as a second class citizen?

I didn't say you should. But.....at least you would have that OPTION. I don't have the OPTION of 'hiding' my skin color. So yeah, be quiet in thinking being discriminatory in being gay even pales in comparison to being discriminatory in being a minority.

Up yours.

A bit confused much? I'm not the one who takes it up the ass.