The boys scouts (moral dilemma)

I've kind of felt like an asshole this weekend because on at least four different occasions I've had to ignore and turn down requests from boy scouts to buy popcorn. Now, I kind of feel bad for these kids who have to stand out there all day and try to convince total strangers to support their cause and buy the goods that they distribute. Especially because whenever I see Girl Scouts selling cookies, I'll be sure to buy some partly because some of their cookies are just really irresistable and also because I feel bad if I just walk by and don't buy anything.

But forgetting the fact that I hate popcorn, I am also morally opposed to what the Boy Scouts stand for and I view their organization as a discriminatory group that I simply can't support. Of course, I don't blame the scout members themselves who are just innocent kids trying to earn badges, so I kind of feel bad when I have to turn them down. But I still view that as the lesser of two evils. Anyone else have a moral delimma like this one?

We've bought the popcorn you're not missing anything anyway, it never popped and always burnt. Anyway, I don't know much about the Scouts as a discriminatory group but I do find it hard to support them knowing what kind of brat kids and jackass parents they have in it who aren't learning ANYTHING by their experiences in it. Once upon a time it was probably something great but such is not necessarily so anymore.

You have two reasons to not buy the popcorn & there's nothing wrong with that. I don't shop at Target or eat at Chik-fil-A anymore even if one has a good sale & I really like the food from the other one. In the case of the Boy Scouts, I feel for the kids but there is also a moral responsibility to yourself & to a cause you believe in too.

Not at all. I have no problem turning down the girl scouts who try to sell me mediocre cookies to support their left-wing whacko, brainwashing organization. I don't blame the girls but smiling at me doesn't give them a right to my money. I am sure the Boy Scouts are smart enough to know that not everybody is going to buy from them, especially people who don't agree with how the organization is run. I am cheap so I might not even buy from them every time they ask, especially just for treats. (Although I am worlds more likely to support the Boy Scouts than I am the Girl Scouts. It'd be more a donation than an actual business transaction.) So fret not, there's no need to feel guilty, and this is coming from somebody who vastly supports the boy scouts over the girl scouts. No need to feel guilty for not buying a product you don't want. And if you got a moral opposition to the company, then so be it. We've often not gone to restaurants who give money to organizations who we disapprove of. It's human nature. The right does it. The left does it. You're just being human.

Forgiveness Man wrote:(Although I am worlds more likely to support the Boy Scouts than I am the Girl Scouts. It'd be more a donation than an actual business transaction.)

What a shocker!

^^^^Just like it's even less of a shocker that you support the girl scouts but are morally opposed to the boy scouts. (And that in a post that you couldn't find anything else to latch onto, and which is essentially trying to ease your feelings, you grasped at whatever you could to spin it into a shot at me. ) I don't see why I gotta be shocking in everything if you are content with being just as, if not more, predictable.

Forgiveness Man wrote:^^^^Just like it's even less of a shocker that you support the girl scouts but are morally opposed to the boy scouts. (And that in a post that you couldn't find anything else to latch onto, and which is essentially trying to ease your feelings, you grasped at whatever you could to spin it into a shot at me. ) I don't see why I gotta be shocking in everything if you are content with being just as, if not more, predictable.

You honestly don't see the irony of your posts do you? Your response on this thread was designed in subtext to openly undermine my feelings towards the boy scouts (under the pretext of trying to ease my feelings WHICH IS COMPLETE AND UTTER BULLSHIT) and you're accusing ME of taking a shot at you?

For the record, I don't know anything about the girl scouts "liberal agenda" (if such a thing even exists). I've had no reason to read the official membership requirements, policy statements or organizational doctrine of the Girl Scouts). So if you'd like to educate us on the liberal bias of the girl scouts using one of these sources, I'd be happy to consider it (though I doubt it actually exists). In any case, the Boys Scouts clearly have very discriminatory policies in their offical doctrine and membership requirements that I CAN point out. And based on that concrete, tangible evidence, I choose not to support them.

Now, if you want me to boycott the Girl Scouts as well, then in your own words (and in a paragraph or shorter) tell my what is wrong with them that I shouldn't by cookies from them. Ready....Go!

Go? lol That's a game, sir. Anyway, it wasn't meant to undermine you at all. At most, I was merely pointing out how you are no different than any conservative or liberal in discriminating your purchases based on your moral and political beliefs, and thus, shouldn't feel bad about it. Overreact much, dude? Ease up there, Snappy.

So now we're justifying why we don't like organizations to people who are political opposites? (As if we need to justify why we don't like an organization. lol I didn't probe why you disliked the boy scouts.) I got plenty of reasons to believe the girl scouts are liberal, but since you are a liberal, you obviously wouldn't see or understand them. (Just like the beefs against the Boy scouts come from a liberal bias I find absurd.) I know you're eager for the buzz you get when you play psychologist with me and then make up conclusions that you believe correct but I am not really interested today.

Forgiveness Man wrote:Go? lol That's a game, sir. Anyway, it wasn't meant to undermine you at all. At most, I was merely pointing out how you are no different than any conservative or liberal in discriminating your purchases based on your moral and political beliefs, and thus, shouldn't feel bad about it. Overreact much, dude? Ease up there, Snappy.

Sorry, not buying it! I never took a political stance on this issue, you did. I have no "political beliefs" when it comes to either the boy scouts or the girl scouts. Not every moral belief is a "political" one, well at least not for me it isn't. Morals exist outside of politics my friend.

Forgiveness Man wrote:So now we're justifying why we don't like organizations to people who are political opposites? I got plenty of reasons to believe the girl scouts are liberal, but since you are a liberal, you obviously wouldn't see or understand them. (Just like the beefs against the Boy scouts come from a liberal bias I find absurd.)

You are the one who brings politics into every conversation FM. You are the first person to mention that something is "liberal" or "conservative" in any given discussion. So when someone presses you for more in the political arena, you shouldn't be surprised or offended. And if you are, then you probably shouldn't go there in the first place. In any case, I'm not a true liberal, and am much more of a moderate (certainly moreso than you are). I don't take stances on issues soley based on politics (whether I view something as liberal or conservative) I do so based on the specific issue at hand. So if you don't want to support the girls scouts because you view them as "liberal" (and I think that is a ridiculous reason) that's you're perogative. My lack of support for the boy scouts has nothing to do with politics and has to do with their official policies of discrimination. If you support the boy scouts, good for you.

You find my "beef" with them to be absurd which frankly puzzles me. On the other hand it doesn't because you see everything as either liberal or conservative. If you support the Boy Scouts and you boycott the Girl Scouts based on political reasons (as you've indicated) then the logical assumption is that your "political beliefs" coincide with the Boy Scouts official policies of discrimination. Either you think that its GOOD that they discriminate in the way that they do, or you don't acknowledge that they discriminate at all. I'm not sure which, but I find either one rather disturbing. But I assure you the fact that they discriminate has little to do with politics because there are liberals and conservative members of the boy scouts.

Forgiveness Man wrote:I know you're eager for the buzz you get when you play psychologist with me and then make up conclusions that you believe correct but I am not really interested today.

Come on "dude", of course you are! If you weren't, then you wouldn't reply on any of my threads.

On a side note, I always found it funny that the Girl Scouts was supposed to open all these opportunities to the girls who join because it sure seems like you never hear one damn word about what they're accomplishing, but the Boy Scouts, oh that's a big deal, they learn all this stuff being out in the wilderness and whatever, why are the girls so mum then?

I never said morals did exist within politics. Your entire first paragraph proves you didn't even read what I wrote. lol And gosh, you're wordy. Sheesh! (And I'll never buy you as a moderate any more than you'll buy me as one.) And for the record, I don't give money to the boy scouts. And frankly, my lack of support for the girl scouts is actually a moral one much more than a political one. So I apologize for misspeaking, let me rephrase. I don't support the girl scouts cause I find the organization a morally bankrupt waste of time! (And also cause their junk food isn't worth my money even if they weren't corrupt.)

I reply to your threads cause I guess I have a hope that one day you'll take a chill pill and I can have a chat with you that isn't riddled with your melodrama. Beyond your snapper turtle response, I actually think you could be cool to have a chill discussion with and I guess I am waiting for the day when I can talk with you without feeling like you're ready to bite my head off the moment I give you anything you can latch onto. lol

Forgiveness Man wrote:I never said morals did exist within politics. Your entire first paragraph proves you didn't even read what I wrote.

I read what you wrote and you indicated on many occasions that your morals are often based on your "political beliefs". Do you deny this?

Forgiveness Man wrote:(And I'll never buy you as a moderate any more than you'll buy me as one.)

You don't have to. I accept that you are a conservative because you self identify as a conservative and for no other reason. You don't have to accept me for what I say I am, but the more extreme someone is in their views (ie: self identified conservatives or liberals) the less likely they are to have the ability to judge without bias. For example, my very liberal aunt swears that I'm a pro-life, pro-war, pro-capital punishment, zionist, conservative who can think of nothing better to do than to criticize Barak Obama whenever the oppertunity comes up. She honestly thinks that based on discussions/disagreements we have every time we talk, and the fact that she is an extreme left-wing liberal who's incapbale of taking a moderate stance on anything (just like you are the opposte extreme).

Forgiveness Man wrote:And for the record, I don't give money to the boy scouts. And frankly, my lack of support for the girl scouts is actually a moral one much more than a political one. So I apologize for misspeaking, let me rephrase.

Don't bother, your position was very clear the first time. You don't need to clean it up on my account. You've already indicated where you stand on the issue.

Forgiveness Man wrote:I reply to your threads cause I guess I have a hope that one day you'll take a chill pill and I can have a chat with you that isn't riddled with your melodrama.

If that is truly your "hope" a more logical strategy would be to stop politicizing every conversation with an inflammatory position that is likely to be challenged by someone like myself. You accuse me of melodrama when you're just as guilty as inciting it. There was no need for you to add your political opinion on this thread, but you chose to do that knowing that you'd be challenged on it. So I didn't create this melodrama, YOU DID. Being the talented writer that you are, you often think you are being clever when you disguise a slap in the face as helpful advice. But you should realize by now that I see right through that nonsense.

If I ever indicated that my morals are based on my political beliefs, I apologize. My political beliefs are way below my morals. I actually consider myself only slightly right of center but whatever. lol If my position was clear, then the problem was that you just didn't comprehend it(cause you didn't get my position so it's one or the other lol). But thanks for accepting blame.

Sounds like you just have a craving to jump on anything I say and will grasp at whatever straws you can. You ask a question, I answer, and then you come back with a snarky reply about my answer being predictable. lol (offering nothing else in the way of an intelligent challenge) Igniting melodrama with you seems to be as easy as a simple greeting. And trust me dude, when I wanna slap ya in the face, I'll come right out and do it, no disguise. But thanks for the writing compliment nonetheless. I should probably get back to looking for the runaway cancer boy.

I think we need to get you a nice bottle of chill! I'll even get it for ya from the vending machine. (But I'll wait to open it until ya get it so you don't think I spiked it. )

Forgiveness Man wrote:If I ever indicated that my morals are based on my political beliefs, I apologize. My political beliefs are way below my morals. I actually consider myself only slightly right of center but whatever.

REALLY? I'd be very curious to know exactly WHAT issues if any you lean left on.

Forgiveness Man wrote:Sounds like you just have a craving to jump on anything I say and will grasp at whatever straws you can.

I know it sounds like that, but it only sounds like that TO YOU. You were the first person on this thread to inject politics and you were the first person to take a stance in complete disagreement regarding my view of the BSA (which was unnecessary given the nature of the question). You jumped on me, not vice-versa!

Forgiveness Man wrote:You ask a question, I answer, and then you come back with a snarky reply about my answer being predictable.

But it WAS predictable! I predicted that IF you responded, it would be a response that had something to do with politics and you would take a stance opposite of the one that I took. I predicted that based on experience and that's exactly what you did. So what?

Forgiveness Man wrote: And trust me dude, when I wanna slap ya in the face, I'll come right out and do it, no disguise.

With all due respect, I don't think you could. You're a little too smart for that and that would be tactically unsound as it wouldn't benefit your cause in any way. I think a slap in the face via subtext is your MO.

Forgiveness Man wrote:I think we need to get you a nice bottle of chill! I'll even get it for ya from the vending machine. (But I'll wait to open it until ya get it so you don't think I spiked it. )

I'm sure somebody on here probably thinks that this comment is NOT lame. I'll await their conformation response to see just who that somebody is. You may want to stick to writing drama. Comedy doesn't become you.

I know you would. lol

I'm predictable; you're predictable. lol If I am predictable, it's predictable that you will point out. Everyone knows that we don't agree on much. Making a deal out of that obvious fact is melodrama. lol

You're right that an outright slap in the face doesn't fit my cause. But I wouldn't hesitate to if I needed to; I just don't typically need to. (And as for my MO, it's probably more orphans dealing with emotional trauma.)

People think FM is lame a lot. Doesn't faze FM anymore. I've been called worse.

I do buy Girl Scouts cookies once in awhile and would probably buy the popcorn. I don't care about their moral cause. It's a private organization and I think they should do what they want whether we agree with it or not. On a bigger scale, for example, you have the UNCF and all kinds of services for "Latinos only", and lunatics like the Westboro Baptist-whatevers that have the right to disrupt a funeral ~ all is scathing discrimination, as far as I'm concerned.

But, no, I don't think anyone should "feel like an asshole" for not buying from the organization. For example, there are celebrities I refuse to support, so I will not pay to see their movies or buy their music, all because they stand for things that scrape too rough against my grain. It's a choice.

Bluesmama wrote:On a bigger scale, for example, you have the UNCF and all kinds of services for "Latinos only", and lunatics like the Westboro Baptist-whatevers that have the right to disrupt a funeral ~ all is scathing discrimination, as far as I'm concerned.

I don't buy their popcorn either.